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religon
Topic Started: Jan 12 2007, 06:48 PM (2,150 Views)
Paper
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We might be on the same page actually. I consider "conversion" to be those people who deliberately go around telling others that they are going to hell for not following the Christian faith. Whilst that is an opinion, it is very unfair to go around telling people this since it scares them. Trying to publicly convert people is wrong in my opinion, since I think it is penalising and disruptive due to the pressure put on people in such a reserved society. People know what your religion is about, you should instead ask them to think about faith, not Christianity.

Now, if you were to say "Jesus died to forgive all sins" I think that would be a much better thing to say, since it doesn't contains a threat. "Converting" in this sense is not evil, as long as people ask for information. As I said, people know what your religion is about.

If I saw someone drowning, I'd offer to help. If they insisted they were fine, I'd leave them alone. I think it is wrong to continuously ask if someone needs help when they've stated they don't want it. To those who are not, I'd much rather leave. No one is going to want to drown, it is in our nature to survive, so you are comparing oranges to apples.

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Are you saying that I should keep my mouth shut before I even know what you believe in? That's like telling me to not tell you where the door is, when I don't know what you think about where that door is located.

Ah, but did I even ask you where the door was?
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cvn-tv-dip
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One thing to clarify: I didn't ask the posts to be this big. I simply answered JosephY's question, and responded to Curst's posts. And I personally think that Curst doesn't get the point I'm trying to make.
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Are you saying that I should keep my mouth shut before I even know what you believe in? That's like telling me to not tell you where the door is, when I don't know what you think about where that door is located.

Ah, but did I even ask you where the door was?

Must everything be asked for before said? The thread maker posted this topic without anyone asking for it.
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If I saw someone drowning, I'd offer to help. If they insisted they were fine, I'd leave them alone. I think it is wrong to continuously ask if someone needs help when they've stated they don't want it. To those who are not, I'd much rather leave. No one is going to want to drown, it is in our nature to survive, so you are comparing oranges to apples.

But figuratively speaking, you might not always know when you're going to "drown," when you're in danger. You might be walking into a train track without knowing it, and someone else might know it and see you. Obviously, that person would want to warn you. You said it's people's nature to survive, but people also may want others to survive.

But the way Curst said it, it's as if I can't offer help even for the first time. It's different what you mention, "Don't repeatedly bother those who already heard you and refused to believe it when you tried to convince them a few times."
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We might be on the same page actually. I consider "conversion" to be those people who deliberately go around telling others that they are going to hell for not following the Christian faith. Whilst that is an opinion, it is very unfair to go around telling people this since it scares them. Trying to publicly convert people is wrong in my opinion, since I think it is penalising and disruptive due to the pressure put on people in such a reserved society. People know what your religion is about, you should instead ask them to think about faith, not Christianity.

Now, if you were to say "Jesus died to forgive all sins" I think that would be a much better thing to say, since it doesn't contains a threat. "Converting" in this sense is not evil, as long as people ask for information. As I said, people know what your religion is about.

A lot of people think that Christians want to simply bolster their numbers just so that they can be the most popular. But our intent when we tell someone is supposed to be to save souls.

What you mentioned in this thread are some misunderstood feelings that some people feel towards Christians. While technically there are certain things that are true in our view, the intent behind such feelings are not coinciding to what we've been trying to tell them. For instance, what we say is that people are going to hell, but there is salvation available. People may feel we're saying, "Join us, because you're going to hell the moment you reject." Sounds like similar, but different resulting emphases. We're not telling them they're going to hell because they refused to listen to us, but they're going to hell anyway unless they receive the salvation we tell them. There's a difference in the feeling.

And of course, we understand that we should be careful upon convincing people, because obviously if we give them such pressure, they'll just hate us and avoid us, making it harder for us.
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freds_revenge
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Atheist... simple enough. :P
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Curst Saden
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Sorry i'm late. I've been busy.......

My a lot happened while i was gone. I don't know what to start with, so i'll just say this:

Paper, thanks for backing me up. It's always nice to know someone else out there shares your beliefs. :D

And as for you, cvn-tv-dip, I don't want help to salvation because i think i'm right in my spiritual and moral choices. I don't think it's right to offer help unless someone asks for it. Yes, i know your penalty for not following you magic book of tricks, and i'm really not scared because your narrow views vex me instead of "convince" me.

What's more important than saving drowning brothers and sisters? Lets see, family, friends, homework, school, jobs, phisycal, mental (and i guess spiritual) health, need i go on?

Ok, so i'm sick and you want to give me your "medicine". Have you considered that the person doesn't need it?

There's so much i want to quote, but i'll just quote this for this post:

cvn=tv-dip
 
A lot of people think that Christians want to simply bolster their numbers just so that they can be the most popular. But our intent when we tell someone is supposed to be to save souls.


One man's help is another man's hinderance. I don't view converting as a popularity contest, but it does seem that some of you want to save the planet so we'll all be a part of a holy God-loving utopia. Sounds like a nightmare if you ask me! :O

And there is no doubt that some of you use converting as a means of control. The Caothlics ruled Europe for hundreds of years until Luther came up with different ideas of salvation. That's when Lutheranism (my technical type of Christianity), Southern Baptism, Methodist, United church of Christ, etc, all came up. If i'm wrong and your right, then that means every other christ-devoted sect of Christianity other than yours is wrong. How does that work?

I'll finish with my opinion saying that converting should be God's concern. According to your ideas (from what i can gather) It seems to me that God is getting around free will because he doesn't have the power to interfere with humans' free will directally, but does have a billion or so followers to save the world with, so i think that he should be the one worrying about wo worships who and we should worry about the things i mentioned that are mor important than converting people.
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mandylore
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im athiest, simply because i used to be christian, BUT then my life turned to s***, and if there was a "god" then my life would not have turned to s*** and i would not be unhappy or depressed right now.
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Nazikiler#38
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you amndlyre or whatever, you know why you are depressed? god loves you. one thing you will be assured, as a christian, if you have not gone through lifes storm yet, its coming. god gives you these storms to
#1:show you the good things in life
#2:test your faith
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mandylore
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at the moment he took all the good things in life from me if he does exist.
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freds_revenge
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Nazikiler#38
January 14, 2007 07:30 PM
you amndlyre or whatever, you know why you are depressed? god loves you. one thing you will be assured, as a christian, if you have not gone through lifes storm yet, its coming. god gives you these storms to
#1:show you the good things in life
#2:test your faith

How is making your life suck show you the good things?
And how is this testing your faith?
Explain to me further, please. :)
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qwert910
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100% Jew
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mandylore
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freds_revenge
January 14, 2007 10:30 PM
Nazikiler#38
January 14, 2007 07:30 PM
you amndlyre or whatever, you know why you are depressed? god loves you. one thing you will be assured, as a christian, if you have not gone through lifes storm yet, its coming. god gives you these storms to
#1:show you the good things in life
#2:test your faith

How is making your life suck show you the good things?
And how is this testing your faith?
Explain to me further, please. :)

yes thanks for making that point and asking that
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LABaller
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mandylore
January 14, 2007 08:47 PM
im athiest, simply because i used to be christian, BUT then my life turned to s***, and if there was a "god" then my life would not have turned to s*** and i would not be unhappy or depressed right now.

No offense man, but that's horrible reasoning.

You have to help yourself first before God can help you (which probably means nothing to you now since you're aetheist, but I'll say it anyways.)

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Explain to me further, please.


I think it's quite clear how it tests your faith.

Several Biblical accounts show God putting people through rough times to test their faith. Basically, God tests if you will still have faith in him even if your life is going miserably. (read the first message in parentheses)
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erti
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Well my religion is Wicca.
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Curst Saden
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LABaller
 
No offense man, but that's horrible reasoning.


No it's not. I'd be a bit dis-hearted if God were to just dissapear and have my life fall apart.

freds_revenge
 
How is making your life suck show you the good things?
And how is this testing your faith?
Explain to me further, please.


That's a REALLY good point. If anything, that would discourage me from being a christian.


LABaller
 
I think it's quite clear how it tests your faith.

Several Biblical accounts show God putting people through rough times to test their faith. Basically, God tests if you will still have faith in him even if your life is going miserably. (read the first message in parentheses)


Biblical, not historical. Biblical accounts are merely religious opinion, if they were official then they would have been in my history text books at school and everyone would be praising God all the time.
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LABaller
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Quote:
 
No it's not. I'd be a bit dis-hearted if God were to just dissapear and have my life fall apart.


Errrm, dishearted of course, but just to quit on God all together?

Yeah, being tested is a huge price to pay for everything God does for you :S

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Biblical, not historical. Biblical accounts are merely religious opinion, if they were official then they would have been in my history text books at school and everyone would be praising God all the time.


Hehe, wrong. If anything, many non - Christians look at it as a historical account. Biblical accounts are religious opinion in YOUR opinion. And let me be the first to say, in no offensive way whatsoever, that you are not the most traditional type of Christian, which may or may not be a good thing [that's up for one person to decide].
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Curst Saden
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LABaller
January 14, 2007 11:22 PM
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No it's not. I'd be a bit dis-hearted if God were to just dissapear and have my life fall apart.


Errrm, dishearted of course, but just to quit on God all together?

Yeah, being tested is a huge price to pay for everything God does for you :S

Like i said, God messing with my life would discourage me from being a christian.
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