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religon
Topic Started: Jan 12 2007, 06:48 PM (2,149 Views)
ralahinn1
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mandylore
January 14, 2007 08:47 PM
im athiest, simply because i used to be christian, BUT then my life turned to s***, and if there was a "god" then my life would not have turned to s*** and i would not be unhappy or depressed right now.

I very much believe in God, yet I still get depressed. Worshiping God doesnt make you any more or less"human" than you already are. God basiclly asks people to be good to one another, to love one another. Alot of what are called"sins" in churches were never thought of as"sin" in the bible. I can mention a truth :blink: I found to prove my point(and have yet to have another Christian to prove me wrong :lol: but because its a "sexual" :blink: as well as a religious"truth" I am not going to post it here, though I did put the challenge up in my blog once.) This world(I believe) is a training ground. Here we learn the lessons we will eventually need for where we are to go(oh by the way, I should warn you I'm ordained :r almost 2 years now, though I believe everyone has a lesson to teach us about God and being human, even if they don't know it) I think our mission is to live the best we can. as humans we will make mistakes, children of allcreatures do. What you have to do is put it behind you but used what you learned so that the next time you are faced with a situation, you get a better understanding about what to do. I'm of the type too where I don't like people that go door to door asking you if you are"saved." They completely turn me off. I believe ways can be opened, so that people can talk about their beliefs/unbeliefs, and one of the greatest quotes I have heard recently(and I wish I could remember who said it is this:
Quote:
 
Freedom of religion includes freedom from religion

If we share a belief/unbelief, fine. I am glad to live in a county though where we can learn more of each other and find the truths in each group B-)
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Curst Saden
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ralahinn1
January 14, 2007 11:37 PM
mandylore
January 14, 2007 08:47 PM
im athiest, simply because i used to be christian, BUT then my life turned to s***, and if there was a "god" then my life would not have turned to s*** and i would not be unhappy or depressed right now.

I very much believe in God, yet I still get depressed. Worshiping God doesnt make you any more or less"human" than you already are. God basiclly asks people to be good to one another, to love one another. Alot of what are called"sins" in churches were never thought of as"sin" in the bible. I can mention a truth :blink: I found to prove my point(and have yet to have another Christian to prove me wrong :lol: but because its a "sexual" :blink: as well as a religious"truth" I am not going to post it here, though I did put the challenge up in my blog once.) This world(I believe) is a training ground. Here we learn the lessons we will eventually need for where we are to go(oh by the way, I should warn you I'm ordained :r almost 2 years now, though I believe everyone has a lesson to teach us about God and being human, even if they don't know it) I think our mission is to live the best we can. as humans we will make mistakes, children of allcreatures do. What you have to do is put it behind you but used what you learned so that the next time you are faced with a situation, you get a better understanding about what to do. I'm of the type too where I don't like people that go door to door asking you if you are"saved." They completely turn me off. I believe ways can be opened, so that people can talk about their beliefs/unbeliefs, and one of the greatest quotes I have heard recently(and I wish I could remember who said it is this:
Quote:
 
Freedom of religion includes freedom from religion

If we share a belief/unbelief, fine. I am glad to live in a county though where we can learn more of each other and find the truths in each group B-)

I agree 100%! I love a world with religious diversity. I don't think God has messed with my life yet, so i don't know, but will prayer help? I have prayed a little here and there and haven't gotten anything back. :'(
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ralahinn1
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I think God answers us, sometimes not in the way we want(and we don't realize it at the time)God's not Santa ;)
I have a funny story(it's funny now that I can think about it) I am basically homeless (I'm in a stable situation now, but last year I was actually living on the street) One cold winter night last year, I prayed for God to send me an angel.I wanted someone to watch over me and keep me safe that night. Lol, God sent me an angel alright :blink: . There is this homeless man I know named"Angel" and he and a friend of his were walking near where I was sleeping that night, both were drunk and arguing over some money (I think the fact they didn't find me there was good for me :lol:). I know God answers all prayers eventually though, but when he's ready to do it, not all the time when we ask.
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Curst Saden
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ralahinn1
January 14, 2007 11:55 PM
I think God answers us, sometimes not in the way we want(and we don't realize it at the time)God's not Santa ;)
I have a funny story(it's funny now that I can think about it) I am basically homeless (I'm in a stable situation now, but last year I was actually living on the street) One cold winter night last year, I prayed for God to send me an angel.I wanted someone to watch over me and keep me safe that night. Lol, God sent me an angel alright :blink: . There is this homeless man I know named"Angel" and he and a friend of his were walking near where I was sleeping that night, both were drunk and arguing over some money (I think the fact they didn't find me there was good for me :lol:). I know God answers all prayers eventually though, but when he's ready to do it, not all the time when we ask.

That's an awsome story. I have often wondered if i mis-interpreted a sign of some sort..........
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Colin W.
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Nir
January 14, 2007 02:16 AM
Not a Christian, not an Athiest, just a Jew.

:P

Same for me. Jewish.

EDIT: You're not just a jew, your a living Jewish Homo sapien.
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cvn-tv-dip
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Curst Saden
January 14, 2007 08:39 PM
Sorry i'm late.  I've been busy.......

My a lot happened while i was gone.  I don't know what to start with, so i'll just say this:

Paper, thanks for backing me up.  It's always nice to know someone else out there shares your beliefs. :D

And as for you, cvn-tv-dip, I don't want help to salvation because i think i'm right in my spiritual and moral choices.  I don't think it's right to offer help unless someone asks for it.  Yes, i know your penalty for not following you magic book of tricks, and i'm really not scared because your narrow views vex me instead of "convince" me.

What's more important than saving drowning brothers and sisters?  Lets see, family, friends, homework, school, jobs, phisycal, mental (and i guess spiritual) health, need i go on?

Ok, so i'm sick and you want to give me your "medicine".  Have you considered that the person doesn't need it?

There's so much i want to quote, but i'll just quote this for this post:

cvn=tv-dip
 
A lot of people think that Christians want to simply bolster their numbers just so that they can be the most popular. But our intent when we tell someone is supposed to be to save souls.


One man's help is another man's hinderance. I don't view converting as a popularity contest, but it does seem that some of you want to save the planet so we'll all be a part of a holy God-loving utopia. Sounds like a nightmare if you ask me! :O

And there is no doubt that some of you use converting as a means of control. The Caothlics ruled Europe for hundreds of years until Luther came up with different ideas of salvation. That's when Lutheranism (my technical type of Christianity), Southern Baptism, Methodist, United church of Christ, etc, all came up. If i'm wrong and your right, then that means every other christ-devoted sect of Christianity other than yours is wrong. How does that work?

I'll finish with my opinion saying that converting should be God's concern. According to your ideas (from what i can gather) It seems to me that God is getting around free will because he doesn't have the power to interfere with humans' free will directally, but does have a billion or so followers to save the world with, so i think that he should be the one worrying about wo worships who and we should worry about the things i mentioned that are mor important than converting people.

Unlike Paper, who actually understood what I said before posting, you're going to be left with one simple sentence:

Figure out what my point is.

For the rest of you who posted after the above quoted post, I'm now going to answer your question: living with God doesn't mean you won't face any hardships.
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Curst Saden
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This is getting annoying. This always happens when we debate. You keep saying that my posts aren't logical or that i'm not reading when i fact i do take a look and try to think it through, and that your posts often come to a contradiction, or something just utterly confusing that's supposed to explain it all when it really doesn't.
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Paper
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It is odd how I am able to take both sides at once :S


cvn-tv-dip:
The nature of a forum permits you to ignore the topic. We have different opinions on how to handle situations which involve helping people. I shall leave that as it is, sicne we can agree to disagree.

Being gay, I have become more than intolerant of being told that I need saving. I am simply well aware of such opinions and don't need to be told repeatedly by ever single gay disapproving Christian I pass. I also don't appreciate being told that I am going to hell, firstly because I don't believe in hell or heaven, only an after life, and secondly because I see it as threatening and malicious.

One third of the world is Christian, it's just the Church that wants to bolster numbers. Let me state this: Better a good Christian than a bad person, regardless of their religion.

Quote:
 
There's a difference in the feeling

Really, I couldn't see it. One is more politer and offers an "escape" route. If I were someone trying to convert others, I wouldn't even mention hell, since it is completely irrelevant to the information about Jesus. In Christianity, it is important that people understand that Jesus, who in Christianity is the son of God, died in order to forgive all sins. I would then go on to explain my experiences with Christianity and ask them what they believe. A friendly discussion would change both my views and their views, and help both of us to seek the ultimate truth about the universe (if such can be determined). Zealotism is the result of not being flexible about your beliefs at all, to the point that your logic is scewed by your own beliefs.

I believe that people's views on faith need "converting", not their religion.
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cvn-tv-dip
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Curst Saden
January 15, 2007 10:49 AM
This is getting annoying.  This always happens when we debate.  You keep saying that my posts aren't logical or that i'm not reading when i fact i do take a look and try to think it through, and that your posts often come to a contradiction, or something just utterly confusing that's supposed to explain it all when it really doesn't.

Why do you think I keep telling you this? It's because it's as I've said.

Do you know what my point is? Let me try once again to clarify for you. People can speak. They are allowed to convince. In response, the listener can accept or reject.

You quoted Paper's post and now you act like you own the thread. That means you haven't bothered to answer my response to Paper's post. That's why whatever I've already said in response to Paper, you've ignored, assuming that I've never said anything back. Thus you miss out whatever I've said in that response.

To Paper: This isn't about the topic of religion, really. I've already said my viewpoints on that, and discussed it with you. Rather, it's how Curst Saden treats these posts, which really hinders my efforts to discuss properly. It's true that you don't have to read every single post in the thread. But if Curst is to respond to me, he should read what I've said first, and from the content he replied with, it's clear that he didn't. Don't you know that it's annoying when you find out you've already replied to what someone said before he posted it? If he's clearly telling me something, and yet he is refusing to read my responses, that's basically rudeness in discussion.
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Curst Saden
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cvn-tv-dip
January 15, 2007 05:44 PM
Curst Saden
January 15, 2007 10:49 AM
This is getting annoying.  This always happens when we debate.  You keep saying that my posts aren't logical or that i'm not reading when i fact i do take a look and try to think it through, and that your posts often come to a contradiction, or something just utterly confusing that's supposed to explain it all when it really doesn't.

Why do you think I keep telling you this? It's because it's as I've said.

Do you know what my point is? Let me try once again to clarify for you. People can speak. They are allowed to convince. In response, the listener can accept or reject.

You quoted Paper's post and now you act like you own the thread. That means you haven't bothered to answer my response to Paper's post. That's why whatever I've already said in response to Paper, you've ignored, assuming that I've never said anything back. Thus you miss out whatever I've said in that response.

To Paper: This isn't about the topic of religion, really. I've already said my viewpoints on that, and discussed it with you. Rather, it's how Curst Saden treats these posts, which really hinders my efforts to discuss properly. It's true that you don't have to read every single post in the thread. But if Curst is to respond to me, he should read what I've said first, and from the content he replied with, it's clear that he didn't. Don't you know that it's annoying when you find out you've already replied to what someone said before he posted it? If he's clearly telling me something, and yet he is refusing to read my responses, that's basically rudeness in discussion.

It's become impossible to debate with you! You keep putting words in my mouth! You keep saying my responses aren't enough! I've had it! I'm leaving this God-forsaken topic.
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cvn-tv-dip
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Curst Saden
January 15, 2007 08:13 PM
cvn-tv-dip
January 15, 2007 05:44 PM
Curst Saden
January 15, 2007 10:49 AM
This is getting annoying.  This always happens when we debate.  You keep saying that my posts aren't logical or that i'm not reading when i fact i do take a look and try to think it through, and that your posts often come to a contradiction, or something just utterly confusing that's supposed to explain it all when it really doesn't.

Why do you think I keep telling you this? It's because it's as I've said.

Do you know what my point is? Let me try once again to clarify for you. People can speak. They are allowed to convince. In response, the listener can accept or reject.

You quoted Paper's post and now you act like you own the thread. That means you haven't bothered to answer my response to Paper's post. That's why whatever I've already said in response to Paper, you've ignored, assuming that I've never said anything back. Thus you miss out whatever I've said in that response.

To Paper: This isn't about the topic of religion, really. I've already said my viewpoints on that, and discussed it with you. Rather, it's how Curst Saden treats these posts, which really hinders my efforts to discuss properly. It's true that you don't have to read every single post in the thread. But if Curst is to respond to me, he should read what I've said first, and from the content he replied with, it's clear that he didn't. Don't you know that it's annoying when you find out you've already replied to what someone said before he posted it? If he's clearly telling me something, and yet he is refusing to read my responses, that's basically rudeness in discussion.

It's become impossible to debate with you! You keep putting words in my mouth! You keep saying my responses aren't enough! I've had it! I'm leaving this God-forsaken topic.

So you give up? :rolleyes:

I don't see what's so hard about it. I discuss with you a topic. I said something in response to what you said. You should do the same.

All you have to do is properly read my posts and understand what I am trying to point out to you, and in response, say something that will make the thread go in logical order.

...

By the way, I really think you've acted out on panic rather than logical reasoning, when you said the following:
Quote:
 
What's more important than saving drowning brothers and sisters?  Lets see, family, friends, homework, school, jobs, phisycal, mental (and i guess spiritual) health, need i go on?

If you literally saw someone physically drowning, would you say, "I'm going to do my homework, so tell me if you decide to believe that you're really drowning!"?

That's what I'm talking about. Regardless of what you might believe (affecting your response), if I see that you're drowning, I would want to save you, and reach out a hand. That act, done on my part, is solely affected by what I believe.

That's my response to your post about "What if I don't believe?!" But again and again, you repeat that exact phrase without regarding my response to it. At least Paper actually said something in response.
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Tails123456
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I am christion.
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ralahinn1
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Paper
January 15, 2007 02:46 PM


Being gay, I have become more than intolerant of being told that I need saving. I am simply well aware of such opinions and don't need to be told repeatedly by ever single gay disapproving Christian I pass. I also don't appreciate being told that I am going to hell, firstly because I don't believe in hell or heaven, only an after life, and secondly because I see it as threatening and malicious.

Remember, God doesnt hate gay people (I think God would have more of an issue with those Wackjobs in the Westboro Baptist Church ) God still loves you, it's the acts he doesn't like. I don't need to know what goes on in any ones bedroom :lol: . I have never "experimented" myself, but I know many young people who do and I have friends in different sexual groups, some live here where I live. One of my first babysitters was a gay man, so I grew up to"accept" it early. I personally think if someone is happy with their orentation or religion, as long as they don't take anything away from me by their actions, it's not right for me to try to take something from them either.
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Dennis
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Quote:
 
Being gay, I have become more than intolerant of being told that I need saving. I am simply well aware of such opinions and don't need to be told repeatedly by ever single gay disapproving Christian I pass. I also don't appreciate being told that I am going to hell, firstly because I don't believe in hell or heaven, only an after life, and secondly because I see it as threatening and malicious.


Well, of course being a Christian who actually believes what he professes, I disagree with your lifestyle. That said, I don't hate you and I'm not going to make it my sole purpose to 'fix' or 'convert' you.

I think that the most effective way to evangelize is to just quietly live your life according to what you believe. There is a place for preaching, and some people are called to it and are good at it. But for me, the best way is for me to simply practice what I believe. That doesn't annoy people as much, and it's a far better witness than just talk. Action speaks louder than words, as the saying goes.
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doob
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Catholic Jedi. Picture Jesus with a lightsabre. Im actually just catholic, but Jesus with a lightsabre would be amazing. I dont see why you are arguing over what religion is. Its personal belief, nothing more than that. Those who believe others should have the same beliefs as them can try and convince others. Personal choice. Simple as that. Do NOT contradict me.
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