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The State of the Skinners Adress.; LONG RANT AHEAD.
Topic Started: Jun 7 2004, 04:05 PM (1,732 Views)
Aaron-ZNR
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seek a newer world
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The State of the Skinners Adress.

All right.... I feel like a long rant is in order, so please listen. I'm really hoping I don't get banned for this... please try to pay attention, as I'm going to be touching upon some extremely important issues here, and I beg you to stay with me.

I've wanted to make this rant for a while, and it all started when I beat .AF in a battle. His skin had very few gradients, and was made with a skin generator. I had taken a lot of time and effort making the best skin I possibly could. I was fine with that, and beating him by a margin of 5 votes seemed great at the time.

The thing is, looking back on it, I should have thought about it a bit more. His skin had 2 gradients. Mine had 5. I had looked at every aspect of my skin, while AF's looked sloppily patched together. And while it didn't earn a {WOW}, I should have had a feeling that something was up when I won by a margin of ony 5 votes. The one that works the hardest should always come on top, that's something that should always be true.

Well, anyhow, I ignored it. "I won, who cares?" I thought, not paying much attention to .AF after that. I won a couple more battles, and then decided to look at .AF again. When I looked at him, I was appalled at the state of his skins. He had begun a trend, using shapes haphazardly thrown around, and color schemes that I was ready to have seizures at. But what amazed me was his amount of {WOW}s. No skinner should have all of his skins {WOW}ed, unless they are all exceptional. You don't walk up to something that was made half assed and go "WOW! THAT ROCKS!", do you? No. If you say "Wow", that usually means it's something spectacular. That's why I was extremely confused at .AF's number of {WOW}s, with every skin he had becoming a {WOW}. None were exempt from the practice.

Then, I decided to make a battle. It was Premades allowed, and Lightz joined it. Everywhere, even though there was none in the topic, I could hear people saying 'oh man... goe is gonna get whooped by .AF and Lightz'. It was as if they had completely forgotten that I had beaten .AF before. He isn't invincible, you know. And with that battle, I proved 2 things. Want to hear them?

  1. No one is unbeatable. I beat lightz, who most people call the 'king of skinning'.
  2. The {WOW} judging system is messed up.

The second one is something most people will argue, but it's true. I beat .AF and Lightz... and that would be something worthy of a "Holy crud.. good job man." I beat someone who was called 'unbeatable'. That IS a {WOW} situation. A member said that my skin is the first on the forums he had even the slightest desire to use. However, for over 14 hours, my skin was ignored by all the staff who replied in it, while .AF's got an easy ticket into the {WOW} forum. I couldn't understand it at all. If you beat a {WOW} skin, doesn't that mean you deserve the title of what you beat? And on top of that, I beat Eric! C'mon... beating someone the public calls unbeatable deserves a {WOW}, right?

In order to get a {WOW}, I had to PM James with the skin. That was unnecessary. Having to PM someone is not needed for .AF. Even if he says the skin sucks, he still get's a {WOW}. I hold nothing against .AF as a person. The only thing I hold against anyone is the process in which people's skins are picked for the {WOW} forum. It's unfair, and this evidence shows it. .AF, while this isn't his fault at all, always get's a {WOW} now, even if he admittedly says the skin sucks.

Now onto the second thing I have to adress: how we think of skinners. Earlier today, I looked through the 'best skinner' topic. Only 2 people said James. Only a handful of people said AgnosticAngel. No one said Cha0sandSin. We've gotton into a horribly bad habit... we're worshipping skinners like Almighty, Adamo, Theo, Cortez, and Eric. While they all are extremely good skinners in their own right, no one is looking at any other skinners. The only skinners that we seem to notice anymore are the big name ones. What about people like James, and me who spend time making every section of our skins count? What about people like BG.FX, who try as hard as they can to make their skins liked, and always fail? What about people like Hamtaro, who barely ever posts a skin, but always amazes? The public has a 2 second memory today, which is why no one ever remembers the old school yet good skinners like Hamtaro, tox0tes, and C&S.

Finally, I have a little complaint about skin battles. I can't count how many times I've seen a big name skinner post a skin, and people immediately say 'you won'. Is there any end to the stupidity of people? Skins can be beaten, no matter how good they are. So why do you even bother to say 'oh you won', when it has no meaning at all?

I apoligize if I offended anyone... but I felt someone needed to say this before the skinning world becomes too far into the depths of idiocy to get out alive.

-Goeyoshi
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SyringeX
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Cool.
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1 1/2 hours is just my average :\ When I do my orbed ones it takes at most 2 1/2 to 3. But I could tell your industrial one took long, Well, just look at it. And how long till it was WOWed? I remember seeing it up there for quite a while, at the same time I was waiting for one of my skins to get noticed.

But James, I saw in another topic you said you quit trying. Just because something gets you down, doesn't mean you should stop. I hate it when people get WOWed instantly, and say I'm going to get "Mad pwned" when I beat the person a few times straight :huh: But really I don't care, I just do it again, and I'll keep doing it again until someday people realize that I'm much better than they're thinking. And you guys aren't the only ones who have been posting this (goeyoshi should know a bit) but I've been posting along about such lines as this, in the clan forum, and in other topics as well. But was I heard by most people?

I mean, most of the people here say they agree, but I bet any money, they just said to go along with the topic, and next time there's a battle, they're just going to vote their favorite.
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Sytex
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AEKDB
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I can agree to this. You know, I may not be well known, or popular, or whatever you want to call it. I've posted 3 skins here. I know it's not alot, but I just can't sit around and make skins all day. I have things to do. I'm not trying to be conceited or anything, because I know I'm definitely not one of the best skinners. But I feel like maybe at least one of them deserved a {WOW}. Not that I really care so much for the {WOW} itself, but it's kind of discouraging to get your skins ignored and then watch skins that you feel aren't quite as deserving as yours get tossed into the {WOW}'s. I know that no one really cares about what I have to say, but that's just something I wanted to get off my chest. Oh well, it's just skins. The sun will still come up tomorrow.
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AgnosticAngel
Caelestis
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I know I haven't spent a lot of time WOWing skins lately, though I try to at least get in their and give some comments. I don't know how screwed up the WOW system is, some people think it should be wowed if it just has gradients and no defaults, personally I won't WOW a skin unless I like it. That doesn't mean it won't get WOWed, just not by me. Old style or EFS, I don't care as long as I like it. I like old style as that's how I learned and I suck at GFX to do enhanced (which is why I post fewer skins now days). I know part of the issue is also just the right person seeing your skin, everyone has different tastes and if the right staffer doesn't see your skin it might go by without due credit and that is always a shame.

However people talking about how long they spend on the maintitle, I do not think the amount of time you spend on a skin determines you should get more or less recognition/credit...It all depends on the outcome. If you can make the same exact skin a little faster using the AIO I don't care, so long as you know how to do it. I use AIO quite a bit, but I still edit what the AIO can't change. Time isn't a determinant in my WOWing, it's all the finished product. And most of the time, if I have an issue with a skin I don't just not wow it, I say what I think needs improvement before I would wow it so you get feedback to improve. I think that is an important step in giving feedback on skins, don't just say "this sucks!" or "great job!" Say why.
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SyringeX
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Quote:
 
However people talking about how long they spend on the maintitle, I do not think the amount of time you spend on a skin determines you should get more or less recognition/credit...


What I was trying to say was, I spend all that time because I llike to put qaulity into the maintitle. I'll spend an hour on one, perfecting it, then I'll trash it, because I put it up on the forum and it looks slightly bad to me. I try to pull out the best I can by spending time, adding detail, and all the stuff a good skinner should do.

In the post topic views, people usually make everything one color and that's it, I'll put quality work into everypart, including the calendar, ucp, and all, because that's what a real user wants, and I want to do my best for the user of the skin, not the people judging my skin. Whenever someone says they'll use my skin, it makes me happy, and I know that I did a good job. And in most of the skins I create, people DO say that.

The simple outset of this thread is against someone throwing a few awful shapes together and getting a WOW, just because it's them. And I am an avid speaker of this, I have been for a while, but I guess no on reads my posts that I create. And this rumble that's going on, I'm getting sick and tired of people saying G.O.A.T is gonna win! They've got Lightz!! Lightz is an awesome skinner, but that's not the point. He has made some skins I'm sure that others are better.

How about this? Now that people have an idea in mind, you make a topic who the top 5 MEMBER skinners are.

Great speech Goe, and great replies to those who decided to take the time and write something to go along with this.
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Robb
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/\ That is what i do usually, i use the AIO and edit what i need to to make the skin look good....i do know some of the coding, not all, some...but i know enough to make the changes i need to to get the skin to look good...and yes syringe, i lobe most of your skins, wether they take time ornot, thye are all good :)
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Wiedle
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I do agree with goe. I also think that a lot of .AF's skins are really good, though they do sometimes seem to be repetive. But also, I think that .AF has a lot of time on his hands. And I mean a lot. To be able to make that many skins in one month, or however long he has been skinning. I think that the staff should come up with a couple of ideas to stop the problem that goey has stated. It does need to be stoped. One thing that I think is that therre should be a new team. A team that looks at all of the skins and WOWs them. Not the people on the skin team. Just an idea.
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Robb
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Thats not a bad idea, and yes i know, i dont think i should get nearly as many WOW!'s, sure they are nice to have, but i dont need em :)
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AgnosticAngel
Caelestis
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Seems how I started skinning before there were generators I think I'm pretty comfortable with the CSS :D I just don't see any harm in using the AIO.

And yes I don't think throwing a few shapes on a gradient makes it great, like I said in my post above no matter how much time or how you make the skin, it is the product that I pay attention to. Not who made it, or whether they used AIO or what, but how it turns out overall.

[edit] It's been said before and I will say it again. I really don't think another staff team is needed. With the skin team any managers and admins who care too there are plenty of people who can WOW skins.[/edit]
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SyringeX
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I first thought it was the review team's job, as they are supposed to review. But Simon does go in there and says his part. Problem is him and the red are the only people who are on the Review Staff. Maybe recruit some people who make good remarks on skins, people who say something like "That's pretty good for a first skin, but next time bla bla bla".
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Lightz
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Don't follow the trend, become the trendsetter
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Nitrous X
Jun 7 2004, 07:29 PM
One thing that I think is that therre should be a new team. A team that looks at all of the skins and WOWs them. Not the people on the skin team. Just an idea.

That'll never happen though.
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Aaron-ZNR
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Lightz
Jun 7 2004, 05:32 PM
Nitrous X
Jun 7 2004, 07:29 PM
One thing that I think is that therre should be a new team. A team that looks at all of the skins and WOWs them. Not the people on the skin team. Just an idea.

That'll never happen though.

For good reason, too. We have a skin team, a graphic team, a review team, a support team... we have enough teams for this century.

And Agnostic? That's what I think as well. However... I just don't like people going and getting {WOW}s because of his name. I think that most of .AF's skins deserve {WOW}'s, but not all of them. It isn't his fault that he has a lot of {WOW}'s, it's the fact that seemingly no one pays attention to what the creator says about their skins anymore (heck... he said he didn't like his blue industry skin... which is why it shouldn't be a {WOW}. if anything). Unless their skins are all spectacular and ground breaking, they should NOT all get {WOW}s.

But maybe that's just me.

-Goe
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Robb
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That is true Goe, and i can accept that, i have said tomultiple skins that they suck, but i guess if a staff likes it its gonna get WOW!'ed....how bout a truce Goe :)?
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Aaron-ZNR
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Truce? I don't recall insinuating any hostility in the first place... Oh well. Truce.... for nothing >>
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Robb
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I think we were both a bit angry, atleast iknow i was :)
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cloudpants
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Okay so do some people think that a skin gets wowed right away because of who posts it? Not true. In case you haven't noticed, it is summer. ;) I am on SZ almost the whole day, and whenever a new skin is posted I'm gonna look at it.

Edit: And even if someone doesn't like their own skin, if I think it is great I'm gonna wow it unless they ask specifically for it not to be.
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