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Obama - Inftanticide; How sick and evil can someone get?
Topic Started: Jul 10 2008, 06:03 PM (1,302 Views)
The Sentinel
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Obama is going to win the election,because of one simple fact...Bush ruined the reputation of the Republican Party and America's credibility in the world.
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Leaves
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Let me back in the box...
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Citizen V
Jul 10 2008, 09:25 PM
Obama is going to win the election,because of one simple fact...Bush ruined the reputation of the Republican Party and America's credibility in the world.
I supported bush at first, but when it came down to it, he was just a RINO.
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Trav-man
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That's Travtastic!
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Woody.
Jul 10 2008, 08:31 PM
However, there may be exceptions, similar to euthanasia, where the baby is going to have a horrible life or whatever, and if there is a law preventing this and the baby is going to live it's few short days/moths/years in aggony, is that really worth it?
Woody
 
.If someone wants to carry out murder to their child. I suppose that's their choice.


Are you freaking insane? Nobody has the right to choose to murder their child, or anyone for that matter. And if you really think they have that right, you are a certifiable lunatic.
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Numark
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Yea, I don't mean to go off topic, so excuse me if I annoy you, but I am kind of getting annoyed with this whole "you can't tell someone else what they can and cannot do" Especially when the argument is made because someone thinks a women has full control over their body. I have news for everyone, that whole argument that you cannot tell a women what to do with her body is pointless. The government already tells me that what drugs I can and cannot put in my body, and the government tells me I cannot sell my body for sex, and there are a number of other examples of the government telling me things I can't do to my body.


Absolute choice, is a ridiculous concept and killing an infant falls under that category. Sure, the baby should have died during an abortion operation, but it didn't. Once that baby is born, then I am sorry, but no one can end it's life.



Quote:
 
Obama is going to win the election,because of one simple fact...Bush ruined the reputation of the Republican Party and America's credibility in the world.


The truth of the matter is we still don't know who is the favorite or anything at this point. It seems that obama is the clear cut winner, but that is not the case. The media is still in "republican backlash" mode and is very pro-obama and very anti-mccain. I am sorry, but you cannot deny that. And then most of you all only socialize with the younger population, who is mainly pro-obama. I am not saying who is the better candidate or whether or not I like obama (I really do like him so don't get me wrong. But I actually really really like McCain as well right now). I am just saying, this race is going to be very long and close and everyone is just hearing so much pro-obama it would make you believe it is a one man race.
Edited by Numark, Jul 10 2008, 10:15 PM.
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Charlo
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Obama on why he voted the way he did:
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I just want to suggest ... that this is probably not going to survive constitutional scrutiny.

Number one, whenever we define a previable fetus as a person that is protected by the equal protection clause or the other elements in the Constitution, what we're really saying is, in fact, that they are persons that are entitled to the kinds of protections that would be provided to a – child, a 9-month-old – child that was delivered to term. …

I mean, it – it would essentially bar abortions, because the equal protection clause does not allow somebody to kill a child, and if this is a child, then this would be an anti-abortion statute. For that purpose, I think it would probably be found unconstitutional.


It sounds like he's trying to stop a ban on abortions through his vote (although I don't exactly follow his logic). He's not pro-infanticide, saying that is an unethical misrepresentation uttered by people who want to do anything in their power to smear the Obama campaign. Like you, Leaves. You know full well that Obama does not support the killing of babies. Do not deny it. You are just trying to get people to ignore the real reason for his vote by making shocking statements.

Maybe Obama's position is not morally defensible. But neither is intentional misrepresentation.
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bighaben
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I think "throwing into a dumpster" is a tad over the top to describe infanticide. I think Obama supports abortions becuase the Supreme Court stated that mothers have the right to abort a child if it's before a certain stage in development. As the Supreme Court is the ruling law of the land, I think Obama may just be following it.

A lot of people have their own opinions but if the Supreme Court says they have the constitutional right to do it, a lot of people will side with it despite it being against their own moral values.

I'm like this with Gay Marriage, I don't support it morally, but constitutionally I don't see why they can't get married, so I support it. Obama may be like this with abortions, only he has an actual supreme court ruling behind him. Roe v. Wade. I believe.
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astroblack
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I will admit I did not know he supported such things and I have been following him blindly. To be honest I have not paid much attention to the presidential election. I should probably look into it more. Especially what the person I thought I was voting for supports.
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Mortek
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Cronus
Jul 11 2008, 01:54 AM
I will admit I did not know he supported such things and I have been following him blindly. To be honest I have not paid much attention to the presidential election. I should probably look into it more. Especially what the person I thought I was voting for supports.
He's NOT supporting it.

Read Charlo's post.
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Leaves
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Charlo
Jul 10 2008, 10:36 PM
Obama on why he voted the way he did:
Quote:
 
I just want to suggest ... that this is probably not going to survive constitutional scrutiny.

Number one, whenever we define a previable fetus as a person that is protected by the equal protection clause or the other elements in the Constitution, what we're really saying is, in fact, that they are persons that are entitled to the kinds of protections that would be provided to a – child, a 9-month-old – child that was delivered to term. …

I mean, it – it would essentially bar abortions, because the equal protection clause does not allow somebody to kill a child, and if this is a child, then this would be an anti-abortion statute. For that purpose, I think it would probably be found unconstitutional.


It sounds like he's trying to stop a ban on abortions through his vote (although I don't exactly follow his logic). He's not pro-infanticide, saying that is an unethical misrepresentation uttered by people who want to do anything in their power to smear the Obama campaign. Like you, Leaves. You know full well that Obama does not support the killing of babies. Do not deny it. You are just trying to get people to ignore the real reason for his vote by making shocking statements.

Maybe Obama's position is not morally defensible. But neither is intentional misrepresentation.
When I say support, I don't mean to make him out to be some ravaged baby killer. I say support as in, he is doing everything in his power shut down any bill that is against infanticide. Obviously no one openly says its a good thing. However, sitting in the middle ground and saying its a persons choice is morally just as bad. Not impeding on an issue for fear of possibly offending some non existent religion, or to not have to express their views is highly immoral. Easy context: If a person is given the choice to make murder illegal, but stops the bill that makes it illegal, clearly shows that they don't feel strongly against the issue / in my words support it.
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Woody.
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Trav-man
Jul 10 2008, 09:47 PM
Woody.
Jul 10 2008, 08:31 PM
However, there may be exceptions, similar to euthanasia, where the baby is going to have a horrible life or whatever, and if there is a law preventing this and the baby is going to live it's few short days/moths/years in aggony, is that really worth it?
Woody
 
.If someone wants to carry out murder to their child. I suppose that's their choice.


Are you freaking insane? Nobody has the right to choose to murder their child, or anyone for that matter. And if you really think they have that right, you are a certifiable lunatic.
I do not want this. I don't want innocent babies to be killed. I would like to have infanticide banned. But for the third time, I am not the representative of an entire nation. There is a law enabling it, so therefore it is their choice. There may be similar reasons for killing a baby as abortion or similar to the one I already mentioned in my last post.
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Trav-man
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Woody.
Jul 11 2008, 03:20 AM
Trav-man
Jul 10 2008, 09:47 PM
Woody.
Jul 10 2008, 08:31 PM
However, there may be exceptions, similar to euthanasia, where the baby is going to have a horrible life or whatever, and if there is a law preventing this and the baby is going to live it's few short days/moths/years in aggony, is that really worth it?
Woody
 
.If someone wants to carry out murder to their child. I suppose that's their choice.


Are you freaking insane? Nobody has the right to choose to murder their child, or anyone for that matter. And if you really think they have that right, you are a certifiable lunatic.
I do not want this. I don't want innocent babies to be killed. I would like to have infanticide banned. But for the third time, I am not the representative of an entire nation. There is a law enabling it, so therefore it is their choice. There may be similar reasons for killing a baby as abortion or similar to the one I already mentioned in my last post.
1.) I've not said or implied that you want innocent babies to be killed. Merely that it's insane to believe someone should have the choice of murdering their child.
2.) As I understand it, infanticide is almost entirely illegal, except in extremely rare cases. And if I had to guess, I would assume that the reason it is legal even in those rare cases is probably more of a loophole in the law than anything.
3.) We know that you're not representative of the entire nation, but I think that we can alll say pretty safely that the vast majority of Americans are 100% opposed to infanticide.
5.) Ah, but when you first brought this up, you spoke nothing of a law giving someone the right to murder their baby. Instead, you said "If someone wants to carry out murder to their child, I suppose that's their choice", as if our inalienable right to liberty is justification for the murder of a human being.
6.) There is absolutely no legitimate reason or justification for murdering a human being, and if you were to follow the line of logic that anyone uses to arrive to their excuse of a reason for this murder, you would quickly realize that they are, as I said, a certifiable lunatic.
Edited by Trav-man, Jul 11 2008, 03:44 AM.
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Leaves
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Trav-man
Jul 11 2008, 03:43 AM
Woody.
Jul 11 2008, 03:20 AM
Trav-man
Jul 10 2008, 09:47 PM
Woody.
Jul 10 2008, 08:31 PM
However, there may be exceptions, similar to euthanasia, where the baby is going to have a horrible life or whatever, and if there is a law preventing this and the baby is going to live it's few short days/moths/years in aggony, is that really worth it?
Woody
 
.If someone wants to carry out murder to their child. I suppose that's their choice.


Are you freaking insane? Nobody has the right to choose to murder their child, or anyone for that matter. And if you really think they have that right, you are a certifiable lunatic.
I do not want this. I don't want innocent babies to be killed. I would like to have infanticide banned. But for the third time, I am not the representative of an entire nation. There is a law enabling it, so therefore it is their choice. There may be similar reasons for killing a baby as abortion or similar to the one I already mentioned in my last post.
1.) I've not said or implied that you want innocent babies to be killed. Merely that it's insane to believe someone should have the choice of murdering their child.
2.) As I understand it, infanticide is almost entirely illegal, except in extremely rare cases. And if I had to guess, I would assume that the reason it is legal even in those rare cases is probably more of a loophole in the law than anything.
3.) We know that you're not representative of the entire nation, but I think that we can alll say pretty safely that the vast majority of Americans are 100% opposed to infanticide.
5.) Ah, but when you first brought this up, you spoke nothing of a law giving someone the right to murder their baby. Instead, you said "If someone wants to carry out murder to their child, I suppose that's their choice", as if our inalienable right to liberty is justification for the murder of a human being.
6.) There is absolutely no legitimate reason or justification for murdering a human being, and if you were to follow the line of logic that anyone uses to arrive to their excuse of a reason for this murder, you would quickly realize that they are, as I said, a certifiable lunatic.
Woody and Trav, if you wanna see someone insane, I should quote some stuff from other forums where I have posted this topic.


theoriginalshields
 
On another note... Why not kill babies? By what standard of high and mighty morals and ethics do you comply?



theoriginalshields
 
People under 18 don't have the right to make all of their own decisions (an infringement of some of those inalienable rights like the pursuit of happiness or liberty?). Maybe people under a few days old don't have the right to choose to live or not.
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Woody.
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Trav-man
Jul 11 2008, 03:43 AM
Woody.
Jul 11 2008, 03:20 AM
Trav-man
Jul 10 2008, 09:47 PM
Woody.
Jul 10 2008, 08:31 PM
However, there may be exceptions, similar to euthanasia, where the baby is going to have a horrible life or whatever, and if there is a law preventing this and the baby is going to live it's few short days/moths/years in aggony, is that really worth it?
Woody
 
.If someone wants to carry out murder to their child. I suppose that's their choice.


Are you freaking insane? Nobody has the right to choose to murder their child, or anyone for that matter. And if you really think they have that right, you are a certifiable lunatic.
I do not want this. I don't want innocent babies to be killed. I would like to have infanticide banned. But for the third time, I am not the representative of an entire nation. There is a law enabling it, so therefore it is their choice. There may be similar reasons for killing a baby as abortion or similar to the one I already mentioned in my last post.
1.) I've not said or implied that you want innocent babies to be killed. Merely that it's insane to believe someone should have the choice of murdering their child.
2.) As I understand it, infanticide is almost entirely illegal, except in extremely rare cases. And if I had to guess, I would assume that the reason it is legal even in those rare cases is probably more of a loophole in the law than anything.
3.) We know that you're not representative of the entire nation, but I think that we can alll say pretty safely that the vast majority of Americans are 100% opposed to infanticide.
5.) Ah, but when you first brought this up, you spoke nothing of a law giving someone the right to murder their baby. Instead, you said "If someone wants to carry out murder to their child, I suppose that's their choice", as if our inalienable right to liberty is justification for the murder of a human being.
6.) There is absolutely no legitimate reason or justification for murdering a human being, and if you were to follow the line of logic that anyone uses to arrive to their excuse of a reason for this murder, you would quickly realize that they are, as I said, a certifiable lunatic.
1) Okay, I wish to reiterate. I think parents should have the choice if the baby is going to live a life of hell for its few days/weeks/months of its life. There may be other reasons, but that is the only one that springs to mind
2) Well good. It's going to happen rarely then, and only used in the extreme cases when necessary.
3) Exactly, which is why it wouldn't happen very often and normally only for the reasons stated above
4/5) Okay, I wasn't clear then. It should be their choice within reason. I don't think it's right to just kill a new born baby. But this is my opinion again. If it goes against the constitution then fine, make it illegal
6) I disagree. While I think murder is wrong in huge majority of cases I think there is an exception, as stated above, where the baby would lead a horrific life for the short time it is alive. But this shouldn't be 'easy' either, I think that they should be definite that the baby is not going to live long, or that it will constantly be in a unstopping and agonising pain all its life. Or in the case of an adult who has the same problem and wants to be put to rest. I'm not advocating murder, I think it should be the last of last resorts, but sometimes it may be necessary.
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Mortek
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Leaves
Jul 11 2008, 04:16 AM
Woody and Trav, if you wanna see someone insane, I should quote some stuff from other forums where I have posted this topic.


theoriginalshields
 
On another note... Why not kill babies? By what standard of high and mighty morals and ethics do you comply?



theoriginalshields
 
People under 18 don't have the right to make all of their own decisions (an infringement of some of those inalienable rights like the pursuit of happiness or liberty?). Maybe people under a few days old don't have the right to choose to live or not.
Seems like you took it the wrong way, he was raising a point, not saying "I want to kill babies".
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Leaves
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Mortek
Jul 11 2008, 05:46 AM
Leaves
Jul 11 2008, 04:16 AM
Woody and Trav, if you wanna see someone insane, I should quote some stuff from other forums where I have posted this topic.


theoriginalshields
 
On another note... Why not kill babies? By what standard of high and mighty morals and ethics do you comply?



theoriginalshields
 
People under 18 don't have the right to make all of their own decisions (an infringement of some of those inalienable rights like the pursuit of happiness or liberty?). Maybe people under a few days old don't have the right to choose to live or not.
Seems like you took it the wrong way, he was raising a point, not saying "I want to kill babies".

He was being quite literal when he said this. He brought up population control and said that infanticide would be a good way of getting rid of the "inconvenient humans", after I brought up morality issues of killing a human over an inconvenience. Ill get some screen shots after I wake up. Im going to bed now. (also I wont wake up in the morning, see'ing as its less than an hour away for me)
Edited by Leaves, Jul 11 2008, 06:11 AM.
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