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| McCain vs. Obama; Round 3! Fight! | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 15 2008, 08:05 PM (4,205 Views) | |
| Lone Stranger (S) | Oct 16 2008, 06:02 PM Post #31 |
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Well, now that I look at it that way, I suppose that if there were restrictions on it that it wouldn't be so bad. But it sounds like Obama wants to pay for everyone's college much like the fed's already pay for our high schools. That wouldn't be so good.. |
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| Das | Oct 16 2008, 06:33 PM Post #32 |
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Smells of rich mahogany
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To use a phrase from the constitution "we're all entitled to certain inalienable rights." I'd gladly argue the right to an education is one of these. There seem to two concerns over this: 1. Cost. It's almost nothing to the tax payer. You honestly have a problem spending a few bucks every year to give someone who otherwise wouldn't have the chance the ability to go to school? You act like anyone can simply walk into college after they're excepted. You seem to think either (a) loans or (b) scholarships will take care of them. (a) You realize the economy is where it's at right now because of bad loans, right? - First, you might not get the loan. The bank doesn't just universally accept every and all college tuition loan. - Second, you're under the impression that all college loans can be payed off when you graduate. Not only is this not always the case (especially for people looking at graduate school), but in 99% of these loans, interest racks up during the time regardless. - Third, 4 years at my state school is $15,000 (tuition/semester) * 8 = $120,00 + $5,000 (books/semester) * 8 = $160,00. Throw in another $40,000 for general expenses and you're looking at $200,000 for a 4-year education. If you make enough to pay off $10,000 a year and assuming even no interest it will take you 20 years to pay it all off. - Forth, the government gives tax write offs for people with college loans which means your tax dollars are paying it anyway. (b) Where do you think scholarship money comes from? Most companies use it as a tax write off. To make this simple for you: Company gives scholarship money -> company pays less taxes -> government still needs money -> government raises taxes -> you pay money either-way. 2. What do other people do for me? Now this shows me you haven't thought this through. Let's just do a few points: a. People without a college education make less money. Quite a few make so little they use other government relief programs. This costs you more. b. More people in college -> more teachers and staff -> more jobs -> more money for everyone -> more tax dollars -> lower taxes. c. America is way behind everyone else in education. You really want that? Are you really such a cold, unthinking, and uncaring man that you can't simply spare a few bucks to make sure that your fellow man can at least form a complete sentence? 99% of the population is dumb as it is; I shudder to think what it would be under your ideas. d. What if one of those kids you didn't give money to was going to cure cancer? Come up with a way to fix the economy to make it completely free for everyone? Also, you talk about privatizing highschool? Are you <snip> insane? You know how many people are on welfare? How the <snip> do you think those people are going to pay for private school? Hell, even most middle-class families can't pay for it. Don't even try "well if your taxes were lower you could pay for it." First, most families that can't afford it pay almost nothing in taxes, and second the amount of taxes you pay related to education is almost non-existent. You also completely neglect the fact that if you had to pay out-of-pocket for highschool 50%+ of the population wouldn't go. Edited by Das, Oct 16 2008, 06:47 PM.
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| Stephen | Oct 16 2008, 08:20 PM Post #33 |
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Twilight is upon me, and soon night must fall.
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Up until now, I was pretty open to listening to you. Now though, all of what you said regarding education comes off as extremely selfish to me. Extremely. This is an "I got mine so screw everyone else mentality". And it's disgusting. I work hard for money for the gas in my car and the food I eat and to start paying off student bills. It's a vicious neverending circle. I work darn hard in classes but because of Lymes, my memory and stamina are not what they used to be and that means more often I get the B and C+ grade over the A and B+. So I don't qualify much for scholarships. The one I got, I got through my writing. But that was it. I'm constantly working hard but only a few scholarships are available once you are in college and it's always dependent on your major. And so for the Computer Science student, I have to contend with a good couple dozen more people smarter than I am. So seeing as how I vote, seeing as how I have taxes taken out and have to file returns, I think I deserve a little help with my education. The government takes great care of the military and the senior citizens and the government employees. Why should everyone else be screwed over? |
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| Nivexonix | Oct 16 2008, 10:50 PM Post #34 |
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Love
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I oppose those who think that paying for college for someone else is such a bad thing. Really, this can be linked to Canadian health care. They pay only a small fee and can be admitted to any doctor's office or hospital. They don't have as many complications as we do, and they pay less. Why? Because it is a national system, everyone pays for others. It get backs to the idea that you should help others. If we put taxpayer's money into funding education for others then it could really benefit the nation a lot. For scholarships, my brother told me of someone who wrote a few essays every month to get money to pay for college. But, you know, this can only get so far. College really is too expensive in my opinion, but if we want to learn, we need to pay. I dislike the idea of having out-of-state fees just because you don't technically "live" in the state that you are going to college in. In other words, college costs so much that it can become a physical and mental burden to have to keep up with it. I just hate the idea of people having to worry about whether they can get more education when they want to. Having a national system for education (ok, I may not have read through both plans as in-depth as some of you) would work well in my opinion. Just as a more over-arching point, I hate how politicians have to focus on the minor details. Really, there are only a few things I think we need to worry about. One, can the person communicate. Two, are they intelligent enough to make a decision that could impact a country. The other things are more logical. These minor things like stuttering, using a repeated phrase, just no. Stop with the minor details. If you care that much, you've lost focus with the world at large. |
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| TheLetterQ | Oct 17 2008, 04:28 PM Post #35 |
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I want to break free from your lies/ your so self-satisfied/ I don't need you
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Isn't it a wee bit hypocritical to claim that other people shouldn't get to go to college on government money while your going to get into college on government money?
Edited by TheLetterQ, Oct 17 2008, 04:28 PM.
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| Justin-ZNS | Oct 18 2008, 09:54 PM Post #36 |
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Looks like McCain is pulling the socialist card against Obama now, story. Not quite sure what to make of it right now though, if it will even have a significant impact on Barack. |
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| ==Kyuubi== | Oct 18 2008, 11:51 PM Post #37 |
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I'm not sure sure that using the Canadian healthcare system serves as a good comparison in what you're trying to draw. There's a ton of articles that relate to considerations being made in changing their own system because of some of their own problems. I once posted articles linked on this site to point that out but there are way more articles than I care to link to directly... particularly when you can access them from where they're already linked. As per the position of the site author, for the sake of avoiding cliche' arguments I emphasize the articles over the webmaster's own position... repeating the same classic arguments ad nauseum rather than emphasizing the actual problems these places face at current is tiresome to say the least.
One could argue that with public schools and many current scholarships being funded by some form of tax revenue would prove the effectiveness of s nationalized system, however, looking at how my local district handles tax revenue as it is, I'd almost rather deal with the scholarships and pay the tuition myself than trust politicians who have more priorities in building a football stadium in downtown Miami than effectively balancing the cities education budget. A lot of public schools down here in Miami have to cut down on programs and field trips to balance a major budget deficit that the city just isn't fixing. Budget issues might not affect the monetary value that tax payers place in the added taxes, but the effect of this type of spending most certainly drives into the programs that the money is intended for, and those secondary effects are still quite prominently felt. I can see where this idea comes from, but tempting as it is to even make college payments something of a nationalized system, I have trouble agreeing to it even despite relying on some of the same tax funded scholarships myself (I pay 3/4 of my tuition through Florida bright futures)... once it's established it's never voted away regardless of any future problems....
If there's anything I could agree on without any kind of hesitation, you just nailed it with this one. From the position you have I don't know if we'd agree on all that much but I most certainly agree here Edited by ==Kyuubi==, Oct 18 2008, 11:58 PM.
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| IceMetalPunk | Oct 25 2008, 02:29 AM Post #38 |
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We are all IMPerfect. Be proud!
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I just want to clarify something: Scholarships don't work that way. Most of the "write-an-essay, get-scholarship-money" scholarships have limited winners, meaning that not everyone (and, in fact, relatively few people) who submits an essay gets the scholarship. Secondly, there aren't as many as you'd think; as far as I know, there's only about 40-50 of those "easy-to-get" ones around. Thirdly, many scholarships have the condition that if you receive a similar scholarship from anywhere else, you are no longer eligible for another. How do I know this? I am a senior now, so I've been poring over scholarship offers, applications, etc. for months now. So don't put yourself under the illusion that a student can easily get $100 or more per essay written. True, there are other offers, but many don't even cover half of a four-year tuition plus books. Which is what's worrying me right now. I don't have the money to pay for a 4-year college, so if I don't get any scholarships, I'll end up at a community college. Which isn't horrible, but neither is it ideal, and it's still nowhere near cheap...just cheaper than the other schools. -IMP
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| JFK | Oct 25 2008, 09:24 AM Post #39 |
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Frankly from where I sit this entire topic may be moot... Or not... From todays paper - http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/20081025_Judge_rejects_Montco_lawyer_s_bid_to_have_Obama_removed_from_ballot.html Edited by JFK, Oct 25 2008, 11:02 AM.
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| Lone Stranger (S) | Oct 25 2008, 10:46 AM Post #40 |
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Have you tried a site like this yet? My teachers have a long list of sites that offer scholarships. If you work hard, then you will get scholarships. The problem is that people tend not to work hard and thus never get a scholarship. |
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| FinalKiller0 | Oct 25 2008, 10:54 AM Post #41 |
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OVER 1,000!!
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Oh, oh I see. Even after working your butt off for four years, you have to work to get scholarships? Scholarships are there to support those who work hard and/or excel academically, not for those who know how to find a scholarship. ^o) Edited by FinalKiller0, Oct 25 2008, 10:54 AM.
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| Justin-ZNS | Oct 26 2008, 11:58 AM Post #42 |
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Too little, too late. If Barack was really not a natural born, then one of the government agencies would have found out when he announced his bid for the presidency. @ Lone, maybe a dose of socialism is what it will take to get the country back up and running. The past eight years certainly haven't work very well, and another four years of Bush won't help too much either. Edited by Justin-ZNS, Oct 26 2008, 11:58 AM.
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| Stephen | Oct 26 2008, 12:17 PM Post #43 |
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Twilight is upon me, and soon night must fall.
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Well if Obama is out, they can just stick Hillary in. Do they really want to do that? Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned ![]() And it is far too little too late. He'll be president. |
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| FinalKiller0 | Oct 26 2008, 12:26 PM Post #44 |
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OVER 1,000!!
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I think it would be best if Obama lost presidency, because then Biden would take office. |
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| IceMetalPunk | Oct 26 2008, 01:04 PM Post #45 |
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We are all IMPerfect. Be proud!
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You mean if he won presidency, then lost it somehow, right? Because if he just straight loses, McCain takes office (for now), and then when he dies, Palin takes over. -IMP
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