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| McCain vs. Obama; Round 3! Fight! | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 15 2008, 08:05 PM (4,199 Views) | |
| Dennis | Nov 2 2008, 09:20 PM Post #106 |
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Member
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There's a difference between voting yourself special privileges and free money from the government, and voting for the right to keep what you earn. The founders clearly did everything in their power to prevent government from intruding on our liberties. Therefore, giving donations to candidates who promote the free market and not stealing what people earn is altogether an American thing to do.
No I'm not. It's clear that higher taxes hurts business both in less income and more expenditures. I'm not sure what you're getting at, because it sounds to me like you're making an argument against taxation. When government interferes with a company's competitiveness, the company suffers in terms of higher taxes, lower productivity and lower profits. That translates to smaller payroll, higher prices to the consumer and so on. Trickle-down economics can be summarized as what helps the producers helps the consumers, and vice-versa. Again, it doesn't require a degree in anything, only common sense.
When you take money from one person and give it to another person, that's socialism. It doesn't matter what taxes you're paying and I'm paying. It matters that I'm taking your money, which you earned, and calling it my own by way of government. If he wants to lower taxes, he should lower taxes. Don't disguise welfare as tax cuts. Giving people back money that someone else earned is not a tax cut. The absence of taking money is a tax cut. Sales tax, property tax, payroll tax, other state-level tax, all red herrings. The issue is a massive welfare program financed (partially) by the rich people.
So let me see if I understand you. You're saying a tax cut is when we raise taxes on people in order to pay for government programs? Because Obama definitely is mentioning cutting checks to people. Since when has being rich been bad? America was founded on the idea that everyone should have an opportunity to do their best. Our system gives people every opportunity to excel. We have so many opportunities. When people take advantage of the opportunities, we used to call it the American Dream. Now we call it opportunism, selfishness. If you're Joe Biden it's unpatriotic, to very loosely paraphrase. It's like saying, we like you, up to $250,000. The American Dream has been redefined from meaning self-made man, someone who took advantage of what America offered and succeeded. Now it means reliance on the government. It makes me angry to hear people say that the rich somehow deserve to pay more taxes. What exactly does that mean? Why do they deserve to pay more? Well, we could assume the why is in order to help those who make less, right? After all, we need the money to improve education, pay for health care, job training, right? But what does it mean? The rich have more to offer, sure. So could we say that from the rich, according to their wealth, to the poor, according to their poverty? That's basically what we're proposing here, guys. It sounds a lot like another maxim I hear a lot. To say that this idea isn't socialism is absolutely foolish. It is the very fundamental tenet of socialism. From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. So please, drop the pretense. This is class warfare at its worst. Barack Obama is playing one group off another based on the poor's envy of what rich people have, and based on the rich people's guilt about having more. There is nothing wrong with being wealthy. The opportunity to make yourself rich is the motivator that drove our nation from a poor agrarian society to the wealthiest nation on earth, where even our poor are rich compared to people in other nations. We should absolutely help the poor in our country to a better life, but I assure you the way to do it is not by taxing the rich to subsidize poverty. We need to extend a hand to people by offering them opportunities to succeed, by giving of our time to feed and clothe them. The idea that the government is helping poor people is nothing more than a cop-out. It's an excuse we use to pass our guilt off onto someone else, to say that we needn't do anything, the government is taking care of it. If, walking down the road, you passed an alcoholic, would you pick him up, give him a bottle of scotch, wish him luck and send him on his way? Of course not. We need to take a proactive approach in helping people, not by giving them what they want, but by helping them to better themselves. No amount of welfare can do that. I kinda got off track, but there it is. You can take it to the bank. |
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| Gwennie | Nov 3 2008, 09:48 AM Post #107 |
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Older than I look
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Just because you say it's so, doesn't make it so. Guess we (you and I, at least LOL) are gonna have to agree to disagree on this. I'm personally not going to keep going round and round on this - it's a waste of time. I could continue to site chapter and verse, as could you, and/but we aren't going to change each other's minds or opinions. I feel it's become pointless for me to continue. 'tis what 'tis. LOL |
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8:59 PM Jul 10