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Nemo's Ideas and Suggestions MK III
Topic Started: Jun 30 2010, 04:03 AM (1,939 Views)
ElementalAlchemist
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Why do you need to edit the error message? Permissions, sure, but I'm pretty sure you're going further than necessary. Especially since it would take quite a bit of recoding to make editable error messages[1].
[1] Disclaimer: I am not Brandon and therefore have not seen the source, but given how errors work, I'm pretty sure they're at least a bit hardcoded. So it would likely take more work than necessary.
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Geoffrey-ZNS
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I like the overall idea, but the way it's implementation is suggested isn't really ideal.

Why not have the Forum Access page as is, but next to the Edit link (in the same box), put: "(Advanced)" so the ADVANCED users can use it and those that aren't don't have to worry about it. It'll be clearly marked which is which and it's really not even that advanced if a non-advanced admin goes into it.

I agree with EA that editing error messages are not necessary at all, especially now that they give an actual message instead of just a code number (see last update topic).
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Nemomon
Nov 15 2011, 04:15 PM
@EA: Considering the amount of settings to change it will be really hard to put everything in one line. Forum settings and Page & Shoutbox settings abreast.

Zachie
Nov 15 2011, 03:59 PM
Then, taking his screenshot (and since I have no graphical genius at all) why not put in brackets next to Edit; Advanced Settings.

So it'd look like; Edit (Advanced Settings)

Do I make any sense?


Then this:

Posted Image

?

ElementalAlchemist
Nov 15 2011, 03:37 PM
Because nothing about that table is consistent. You have the edit settings in the one column and edit advanced settings in a completely different column (which is to the left of the Edit column, so you'll actually confuse more people, not less). (Granted, I don't disagree with this; more control is always great for me, but I'm not sure how much we can count on Brandon joining us on this.)
Maybe this:

Posted Image

?
*Wishes this was a true screen shot*

Just having advanced settings separate would really help. Even than a beginner will just come here and ask for questions about the feature anyways. The only way to learn is to test and experiment.


People will ask questions anyways. Not to offend anyone, but there are people that ask how to put a banner on their forum. They learn at some point and soon they tell other people. Some of the more advanced users are always ready to help so I say lets give this puppy a bone and give us advanced features!
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Nemomon
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@EA & Everyone else:

I added "Edit Error Message" there just because there is an opportunity to add it. "Edit Error Message" is not a part of my Permissions Manager feature request, but considering that it can be added along with permissions, so I mentioned it.

Why is it helpful? For example instead of "Notice: You are banned. Error Code: 2431243:65345245" I can change it to: "Your account is banned. If you don't know why, contact Nemomon using this E-Mail address: nemomon@xxy.com".

Instead of "You do not have permission to access this topic. Error Code: 27002:1" which suggests that topic I want to view still exist, I can change to: "This topic is deleted. Go away and never come back!"

Also EA, I would go even more further, but today I am tired now so no screenie, and list in permissions every BBCode, every option of BBCode, options of usergroups (for example can post in locked topics, can remove Edit Legend, can access Admin CP &c).

Why? Permission Masks are invisible. Given user may have million of them attached to his/her account. I can give special abilities to his account without any other Members knowledge. I can mage an Admin who will not be visible in Admins list. I can give possibility to remove "Edited by" legend to single account who is in my default Members group.
Crash-Cheetah
Nov 15 2011, 07:20 PM
People will ask questions anyways. Not to offend anyone, but there are people that ask how to put a banner on their forum. They learn at some point and soon they tell other people.
Exactly! People always will ask. Even very stupid questions "where to change my banner? Halp!". But this should not be a barrier for advanced features.
Edited by Nemomon, Nov 15 2011, 07:42 PM.
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Stephen
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GAK
Nov 15 2011, 06:23 PM
I like the overall idea, but the way it's implementation is suggested isn't really ideal.
This is my issue as well. I have no problem with adding advanced features, but they have to be done smartly. You don't just get the keys to the kingdom. Because if you make a mistake, guess who has to fix it? :r

There was a reason doHTML was removed for ZB. It was a massive security problem for IF board owners (and still is at times). There was a reason IF never was able to add custom bbcode and why it's still tightly controlled in ZB. There are reasons certain areas are limited. I can agree that some of what you suggest would be nice. I can't support the current layout however. If anything, I'd favor something more gradual that can be built upon so it is more elegant in layout.

What you've laid out is, frankly, a mess. And as a business, while we wish to retain our current customers, we also need to be sure we are not alienating our new customers. Many have stuck with Invisionfree because they find Zetaboards too complicated. That's a valid criticism. Likewise, so is the desire to have more advanced options for experienced board owners. The trick is finding a compromise between these two viewpoints.
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Nemomon
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Stephen
Nov 15 2011, 08:37 PM
You don't just get the keys to the kingdom. Because if you make a mistake, guess who has to fix it? :r
I think I know who :r

While it is hard to believe that some users may think that IF is easier than ZB, especially that most of things in IF you must do using HTML, personally I also would take these words as a criticism.

The problem however is with newbie board owners who would want to use certain things but they don't know how they are working. For example that doHTML. It is easy to say - if you don't know how to use HTML, then don't enable its tag. And I understand that Support Staff would want to have less amount of tickets from owners who used something without knowing how it works. But limiting advanced board owners, just because a few beginners will use some features blindy and will destroy their board and will request restoration/help, is not fair to them too.

Optionally the problem is with advanced board owners who exactly know what and how they would want to acomplish, yet they are limited by the amount of features, or how they actually work, and they may not complete their plans. The problem is with advanced board owner's creativity...

I might be wrong but board owners usually want more features. Especially as they grow. When they are newbie, they don't need a lot of features, and indeed the amount of current ones may fear them. But as they are older and older, they want more features because of that mentioned above creativity. The point is how to add advanced features and make them look like a basic features. An example above: With just possibility to add links to submenu and possibility to control submemu viewing permissions I am able to create a personal library of links for my Members.

My screens were to show more or less what am I thinking how to implement given feature. I am not saying that it is the best way Brandon for sure will know better how to add them. Their role is just to show what feature I am thinking.

And I would want to see possibility to create custom BBCodes added to ZB someday too :)
Edited by Nemomon, Nov 15 2011, 11:09 PM.
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To bad there wasn't a way to Upgrade an ACP to a more advanced. Maybe:

Admin CP Controls > Personal ACP Settings > Advanced Settings? Yes or no

That way if people don't want advanced settings than they know better to select the yes. If they do than maybe under the Advanced settings there's a reset button.
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Nemomon
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Crash-Cheetah
Nov 16 2011, 08:56 PM
To bad there wasn't a way to Upgrade an ACP to a more advanced. Maybe:

Admin CP Controls > Personal ACP Settings > Advanced Settings? Yes or no

That way if people don't want advanced settings than they know better to select the yes. If they do than maybe under the Advanced settings there's a reset button.
This could be a quite funny idea.
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Nemomon
Nov 16 2011, 10:11 PM
Crash-Cheetah
Nov 16 2011, 08:56 PM
To bad there wasn't a way to Upgrade an ACP to a more advanced. Maybe:

Admin CP Controls > Personal ACP Settings > Advanced Settings? Yes or no

That way if people don't want advanced settings than they know better to select the yes. If they do than maybe under the Advanced settings there's a reset button.
This could be a quite funny idea.
It could work if done correctly..... ;)
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Nemomon
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In fact I am not sure if this would not be a pain for Brandon to have two ACP versions to update. ;)

But the idea itself sounds good. But the problem would be if that advanced settings actually would somehow affect the board even when they are hidden. Also, if that advanced features would be spreaded all around the whole ACP instead of sitting in one place, this would be a pain for Admins too.
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Nemomon
Nov 17 2011, 06:42 AM
In fact I am not sure if this would not be a pain for Brandon to have two ACP versions to update. ;)

But the idea itself sounds good. But the problem would be if that advanced settings actually would somehow affect the board even when they are hidden. Also, if that advanced features would be spreaded all around the whole ACP instead of sitting in one place, this would be a pain for Admins too.
It would be if you selected yes than around the ACP the features would pop up.
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ElementalAlchemist
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I'm not so much of a fan of this "advanced features" thing. Here's why:
  1. Brandon essentially has to maintain two Admin CPs; one for basic features, and one for more advanced features. There may be some similarities, but note that many current ACP pages would need to change to support a wide range of advanced features.
  2. Having to support two ACPs will be no fun either, especially when someone who wants the basic ACP asks about how to do something that is an advanced ACP feature.
  3. Hiding options that do something to the board is very very bad, so you'd have to make this feature a one-way button, where clicking the button activates the advanced features, which then cannot be deactivated, thus preventing something that could be negatively affecting your board from being hidden.
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Nemomon
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ElementalAlchemist
Nov 17 2011, 01:20 PM
  1. Hiding options that do something to the board is very very bad, so you'd have to make this feature a one-way button, where clicking the button activates the advanced features, which then cannot be deactivated, thus preventing something that could be negatively affecting your board from being hidden.
With this there is yet another problem, when given board has more than one Administrator. If the button for advanced features will be in ACP personal options, it will be hard to maintain everything what other Admins will do. Great example as of now we have with usergroup post count based promotions - only ROOT Admins can see and edit them. The problem is however that if non-ROOT Admin edits usergroup settings, usergroup post count based promotions are going back to their previous setting - disable promotions. At least in the past this was a problem, I am not sure if Brandon finally fixed that, or ignored that.

This is why I am not so sure about two ACPs either.
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Brandon
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Nemomon
Oct 17 2011, 05:58 PM
Can STAFF BBCode has its own class? As of now it seems like it shares the class of Blockquote. I think that this BBCode should be better visible in the topic, therefore it should have its own class.
The block quote tag now has a class of: stafftag
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Nemomon
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Brandon
Nov 21 2011, 09:21 AM
Nemomon
Oct 17 2011, 05:58 PM
Can STAFF BBCode has its own class? As of now it seems like it shares the class of Blockquote. I think that this BBCode should be better visible in the topic, therefore it should have its own class.
The block quote tag now has a class of: stafftag
Thanks! :)
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