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| An Amendment to the Forum Rules; Please vote respectfully. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 30 2014, 02:01 PM (2,527 Views) | |
| Stephen | Aug 30 2014, 07:24 PM Post #16 |
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Twilight is upon me, and soon night must fall.
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I would not support this change and voted no. Nicolas answered it pretty simply but I'll add my two cents:
I sympathize with your problem, but ultimately this will not solve the problem but only create more issues. Your best recourse is the Report PM button. |
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| Billamen | Aug 30 2014, 07:31 PM Post #17 |
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I agree with this amendment, but at the same time, maybe you are inviting people to sass you by sending you PMs requesting support despite what your signature says. ![]() Even though people target you for support questions involving codes, it is unfair to you because if it was posted in the support forum it would get answered faster and others with a similar problem can read the topic, not just who requested help. My above comment was just a thought. Sometimes I feel posting a notice saying "do not PM me for code requests" makes people want to do it even more, if you know what I mean. |
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| Nicolas | Aug 30 2014, 11:56 PM Post #18 |
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"PLES RING IF AN RNSER IS REQIRD."
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I understand what you're saying, Ferby - and I'm afraid a rule won't change a thing for you. If a member PMs you for support initially they'll likely do so regardless of a rule. You will then kindly ask them not to PM you for support: with or without a rule. If they continue, you will report them and the staff will step in: with or without a rule. No change is produced in changing this rule except for an expectation of enforcement which is unrealistic, the possibility of users backseat moderating or otherwise mistreating new ignorant members, and disallowing users who do want to be able to help via PM (often for private boards, specific codes, etc.) from doing so. |
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| Pete B | Aug 31 2014, 05:23 AM Post #19 |
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Don't we have PM logging on this board? It's a bit unreasonable to assume people are going to respond poorly to these PMs, you're sort of punishing users on how they might respond rather then dealing with a problem that is happening right now.*
I think the problem is that you can't report it because it isn't against the rules...
How exactly does adding a rule imply staff sanctioned authority? Surely it is no different to any other rule. If someone PMs me with advertising I could "backseat moderate" right now.
Staff rule enforcement standards are not really relevant. I certainly wouldn't perma-ban a newbie who joins and sends an advertising PM, this wouldn't be any different.
Just make the rule "No unwarranted support over PM". Yes, there is no real way to enforce the rule because newbies won't read the rules anyway. This is probably why when you PM a member of staff there is a warning message reminding you about asking for support. This could easily be expanded to display when PMing any user. Let me throw out a question. Why exactly is PMing staff for support against the rules? *I don't know how much of an actual issue this is in terms of volume. If only a few users are getting a couple of support related PMs then it isn't really. Another poll could be 'How many users receive unwarranted PMs regarding support?' |
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| Ferby | Aug 31 2014, 05:29 AM Post #20 |
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Okay, I understand. However, I also agree with Pete B (he posted as I was replying )
Edited by Ferby, Aug 31 2014, 05:30 AM.
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| Stephen | Aug 31 2014, 09:28 AM Post #21 |
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Twilight is upon me, and soon night must fall.
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Pete: There has never been any reason a Post or PM could not be reported. Users use the Report button for topics that need to be closed for example. If a PM is asking for support and the user does not want it, then report it. Yes, PMs are logged. And at that point, we can see whether the user is sending excessive support PMs to other users or not. This does not need an addition to the rules however. The existing rules cover it. And again, it's not going to stop new members who don't read the rules to begin with. As to your question on staff sanctioned authority, the existing rule states: don't encourage users who offer support via PM. So if a user, any user chooses to accept PM support and later chooses not to, it creates the contradiction I referred to and some users, based on the history and actions of other past users, may more aggressively use such a rule as implied staff sanctioned authority rather than simply report it. As to enforcement, Staff Enforcement IS relevant. It's the key in fact. If you add a rule that will not be enforced, what is the point of the rule? The rule has no power. Finally, to answer your question: It's for the same reasons we say in the rules not to encourage users who offer support via PM. A rule change should be instituted if it can resolve a problem. Instead, this will not solve anything. The existing rules cover the instances referenced. |
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| JadedOne | Aug 31 2014, 11:39 PM Post #22 |
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I had a stranger on here PM me a few times asking me to log into their board to add/edit codes for them after they saw me respond to a few posts on here. I finally told them no, what they were doing was putting their board in danger and blocked them. So I get how annoyed and frustrated Ferby is. Ferby maybe you could put that request about PM'ing above your banner and put it in bold lettering? It might cut out some of the unwelcome PMs. Edited by JadedOne, Aug 31 2014, 11:40 PM.
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| Ferby | Sep 1 2014, 07:56 AM Post #23 |
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Yes and no. I've already been notified that my signature cannot be too big and I'm not willing to remove The Nerd Domain from my signature just to ask members not to PM me. It's unfortunate that this is a problem because I do like providing support but not being asked to do so. One question I do have for staff is when you say there's no use changing a rule because it would have no effect, you also say that you still get messages for support yourselves (or at least Ryan said). That would mean the rule is ineffective for you as well so what's the use having it then if it has no effect? |
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| Jonathan | Sep 1 2014, 08:14 AM Post #24 |
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Support tickets, forum violations, bug squashing and other ad-hoc jobs generally take up quite a bit of time for staff, so removing the rule would invite more members to ask for PM support. The rule might be ineffective, but it's still a rule. Providing support through PM is very ineffective in most cases. Members are free to answer support questions via PM if they don't mind doing so, just so long as it isn't encouraged (I.e. "Send me a PM if you need help!" In your signature). |
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| Ferby | Sep 1 2014, 08:17 AM Post #25 |
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But you do not encourage (or recommend any users to encourage) members who provide support over private messages and yet you're clearing a path way for them to do so. |
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| Jonathan | Sep 1 2014, 08:23 AM Post #26 |
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Because there are instances where PM support might be preferred or accepted. |
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| Ferby | Sep 1 2014, 08:28 AM Post #27 |
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Then surely it would be down to the user to decide if it's acceptable or not. I've been provided support over PMs before from staff yet the rules state they cannot. This isn't just one-time support where I've targeted them, they've offered me help. It'd be the essentially same thing. |
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| Stephen | Sep 1 2014, 09:57 AM Post #28 |
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Twilight is upon me, and soon night must fall.
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Unless you want Nicolas and myself going into PM logs daily and reading everyone's personal messages, we simply can not moderate PMs unless they are reported. The rules already state not to encourage users who offer PM support. And they already state not to PM staff for support. But ultimately, users still do both. However, if you ask a user not to do it, most times after the first offense, they stop. Repeat users you use the report button for and we handle. This is the current state of things. A rule alteration will not alter this state at all. |
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| .Reverie. | Sep 1 2014, 01:09 PM Post #29 |
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I think in the already present notification should include any members as well. And then link to the ticket area or something. The most anyone can do is ignore PM's, if they continue to have an issue they will eventually go to the forums hopefully. If you do not like ignoring just have a message ready to copy and paste saying "Please request in the right area and I can see what i can do," Or something along those lines. However I did vote yes, but I think simply fixing the notification would rightly do it justice as well. I mean most people who do use the PM system will not read the notification either, but there is a chance it will be noticed. |
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| Ferby | Sep 5 2014, 09:25 PM Post #30 |
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I very much agree with you. What I ask, as a compromise then, is to have a message appear to all members who decide to message me that I do not wished to be bothered about support unless it's about my own code, and that anyone who wishes to opt into this may do so by contacting the support team. I've taken the time to draft up a Terms of Use for my codes (much like what ksh has in his signature) that I'll allow any other coder to use if they want to. It's not as effective as I would like it to be but I'd like something in place to either reduce requests or to not condone it. I'd much like to continue to provide support out of my own free-will but being bothered to do so demotivates me. Would the staff like to give their opinion on this? http://bit.ly/1AgK7oe |
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