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| An Amendment to the Forum Rules; Please vote respectfully. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 30 2014, 02:01 PM (2,525 Views) | |
| Stephen | Sep 5 2014, 10:23 PM Post #31 |
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Twilight is upon me, and soon night must fall.
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Can you explain to me why the current recourse is not enough? Staff have already told you that members PM us all the time when new. This goes all the way up to Brandon mind you. Even he can't stop people from sending him support PMs. If you have a problem, we've indicated you can Report the PM or Block the Sender. If it becomes a repeat offense, we will act. I spend at least 10-15 minutes each day in the PM log section looking for any out of the ordinary numbers. If I notice that a user I've never heard of suddenly has 20+ PMs today, I will browse through the log and verify they aren't spamming. I've caught plenty of users this way and dealt with them before a single report was filed. But if you do not bring this to our attention at all, we simply won't know to act. |
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| Billamen | Sep 6 2014, 04:07 AM Post #32 |
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To add to that, maybe posting a notice saying "do not PM me for code support" just invites support requests via PM even more. Maybe the best reaction is to simply ignore the PMs, if you can. Stephen, I suspect that at some point (perhaps after the second PM) you ignore further PMs for support. |
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| Ferby | Sep 7 2014, 06:51 AM Post #33 |
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So you'd rather take no action than help try to prevent it? These messages are irritating to me and I am seriously considering just refusing anyone to message me. In that case, I think I may just stop providing support altogether because the only motivation I get is helping those in need but I guess others can do that. |
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| Jonathan | Sep 7 2014, 07:08 AM Post #34 |
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Every morning I visit this board, I have to deal with two things.
It's frustrating, yes, because it impedes my ability to actually provide support (particularly since I use my iPad for the majority of things, and dealing with spambots is not easy on an iPad), but I certainly won't give up because of it. PMs I generally just ignore. If they message again, I just refer them to the board rules. If you amended the line in your signature so that you say you don't want to provide support as well as code support via PM, you could do the same. |
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| skyfallzeus | Sep 7 2014, 12:29 PM Post #35 |
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Farewell zb thx for the memories
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Does that include friends too |
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| Ferby | Sep 7 2014, 01:10 PM Post #36 |
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You have my email and are registered on ND so I don't think you'd have a problem contacting me. I also have Skype. |
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| Moonface | Sep 7 2014, 01:52 PM Post #37 |
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I think it's more or less established that rules and notices don't really resolve much in regards to PM support that isn't wanted, both in this topic and from my own experience. I've had users send me a PM almost every other day over a span of a month from being that persistent, and others who I blocked came to my own forum to pester me there. Some even go as far as to PM me on here and my own forum with the exact same message, or the best one, seeing a PM on my board telling me I have a PM on this board that's asking for support. And all this with rules and notices in place. So I'd say rules don't ultimately solve the problem; at best they may reduce the amount, but whether they do I have no clue. Personally, regardless of what the content is, if a user is being persistent with PM's after being asked not to do so and the receiver isn't getting anywhere, while they can of course block them, it should get staff intervention. It might be as simple as a verbal message telling them to be considerate to other users in regards to the PM system, or if it is really excessive then further action is taken. Ignoring a user resolves the problem for that one user, but it doesn't necessarily discourage the person sending the messages from acting the same way with someone else, and the other issue is without us knowing it already happened, a later incident could appear to be a first time case when it could be a second, third, fourth, tenth, etc. Ignoring users via the PM system is ignoring the issue itself if no actual action is being taken against users who can't be considerate about how they use the PM system. To Ferby or anyone else, the action of blocking the user is a valid thing to be told to stop being pestered, but I don't think it's the full resolution. If a user is being persistent to the point they've had to be blocked, they've likely been harassing or inconsiderate in my opinion, and should at least be verbally informed by staff not to act that way so they don't just move on to the next person to PM in that manner. If they continue their actions in the PM system they've been told by staff to not do, I'd say further action is warranted, whether it be a warning, PM system removal for timed or indefinite periods, etc. However, the staff obviously can't know this has happened to deal with these users if we're not informed of it by the report system, and we can't judge it by PM logs alone because one user may find 10+ messages annoying while another doesn't give a damn. The best way to act is to know from the receiver first hand how they feel about it by a report. Otherwise, it's potentially guess work and incorrect responses being made to what is seen. Plus, not everyone on here can see PM logs so it greatly restricts who can deal with it, and the time in which it gets dealt with. I could see a report now and deal with it, but if it had to be found purely in PM logs it can't be done until when and if an admin notices it in there. |
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| skyfallzeus | Sep 7 2014, 02:18 PM Post #38 |
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Farewell zb thx for the memories
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what about a casual "hi whats up" kind of pm..like i pmed you moonmate last month to say hi how are doing..but you never replied. The P in pm stands for Edited by skyfallzeus, Sep 7 2014, 02:32 PM.
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| Ferby | Sep 7 2014, 02:28 PM Post #39 |
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Try private. Moonface, whilst I agree with you, there should be some sort of rule in place not just for staff but for members as well. Okay, so the rule amendment might not be that since some users may not mind being messaged about support but there should be something that says you shouldn't message a member about support if they do not wish to provide it that way. It's not just so I can hope it will reduce it but it's also a confirmation from staff that they are willing to take action when someone reaches out for help. Whilst it may be ineffective, it's still a great gesture. Not doing so is quite upsetting to the point where I'm willing to just give up providing support. |
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| Stephen | Sep 7 2014, 03:37 PM Post #40 |
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Twilight is upon me, and soon night must fall.
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In this instance, skyfallzeus is correct. While other boards use the term Private Message, ours has always been Personal Message. Either way, not very private if the messages are logged. Secondly, there is a rule. And we've brought it up before. We ask users NOT to encourage those who offer support via PM. I don't mean this to be rude, but the truth is that because you have offered code support via PM for so long, it's led you to this problem. I have seen users PM you often in the logs but never acted because you responded with support. Had I been notified that you wanted this to stop, I might have acted. However, if your goal was to make clear that you do not want users to PM you for support, I would argue you have accomplished that through this topic. Throughout this topic, we've explained why a rule change will be ineffective. We've also asked essentially why you deserve special treatment- which is what you've been asking for. Even if we did concede and made a change, we've told you it probably won't do anything because all of us, right up to Brandon, still get support requests via PM from new users who do not know any better. If you believe that message deters users, I assure you it does not. Users who want to send a PM will send it and ignore the consequences every time. And we've told you want you can do. We've told you to report the PMs so we can deal with it and block the senders if needed. Which is ultimately what you'd have to do anyway once they ignore any rule or warning we put up. So really, what is it that you want from this? If you wish to stop receiving PMs, you can simply go into your settings and set this: Accept PMs from other users? to NO. Admins such as Brandon, Brian, Nicolas and myself can still contact you and you'll be free to message others (but get no reply). Seems like that is your end goal here? Ultimately when a Rule is instituted, it needs the following: It must be sensible. If I made a rule that said no posting in the color yellow because it is hard to read, users would simply ignore it. They have the option to do so and I have no way to restrict it short of editing each post and restricting their edit ability. That's about as effective as the rule you are asking for would be. It must be fair. Here is where the rule fails. There are users who encourage support via PM. What are we do to? Punish them for wanting to help? That's the only way to enforce such a rule. Otherwise, users will continue to offer support via PM. I can't just stop them. They are personal messages. And how do I prove they are violating this? Essentially have users seeking support report those helping? Can't do it. It must be enforced. We've already gone over how I can not enforce it. Instead, we have a rule asking users not to encourage those who offer support via PM. That's about as effective as we can be short of some sort of draconian PM system. |
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| Ferby | Sep 7 2014, 04:39 PM Post #41 |
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I've always provided support on only my own codes via PMs so I invite you to find a recent PM of me providing support for a code which isn't my own. |
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| Stephen | Sep 7 2014, 05:11 PM Post #42 |
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Twilight is upon me, and soon night must fall.
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I was referring to your own codes. |
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| Ferby | Sep 7 2014, 05:24 PM Post #43 |
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I've never denied I provide support for my own codes through private messaging but that's because users have a valid reason to ask me for help; I made the code. When it's something like "Please help me with this: (support link)". It does get irritating. Yes, there is no real way to enforce users to stop messaging me for support but there is no real way to enforce members to not do the same to staff members and yet a rule stands for that. I actually really like Moonface's idea as it acknowledges the problem and puts staff & users on a more equal level when it comes to providing support. |
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