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| UFO Cover-Up?; Fact? Or Ludicrous Sci-Fi Fantasy? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 3 2007, 01:36 AM (1,003 Views) | |
| Numark | Feb 13 2007, 11:35 PM Post #16 |
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Do aliens exist? its a possibility and there is probably life out there somewhere. Is the government hold information? No, everything you stated in your opening post was complete bull ****. |
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| italianmafia23 | Feb 14 2007, 12:13 AM Post #17 |
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Oh, is that so? Can you back that claim up with evidence or logical reason? Let us review two other pieces of key evidence confirming the cover-up. The Project Blue Book's Special Report #14 is significant because it contradicted the Air Force's own stated conclusions. Blue Book was not the open minded research project to determine the origin and potential threat of flying saucers that it was made out to be. It was simply an attempt at putting the UFO phenomenon to rest for good by proving there was nothing to it by any means necessary. Battelle Memorial Institute agreed to assist them in making the Air Force UFO study more scientific. It was the Battelle Institute that devised the standardized reporting form. Starting in late March 1952, the Institute started analyzing existing sighting reports and encoding about 30 report characteristics onto IBM punch cards for computer analysis. Battelle employed four skeptical scientific analysts, who sought to divide cases into "knowns," "unknowns," and a third category of "insufficient information." They also broke down knowns and unknowns into four categories of quality, from excellent to poor. For example, cases deemed excellent might typically involve experienced witnesses such as airline pilots or trained military personnel, multiple witnesses, corroborating evidence such as radar contact or photographs, etc. In order for a case to be deemed a "known," only two analysts had to independently agree on a solution. Therefore, in the end many of the known's may actually have been unknown's, but was recorded as a known simply because of two of the analysts reaching a consensus agreement regardless of what the other two thought. However, for a case to be called an "unknown," all four analysts had to agree. Thus the criterion for an "unknown" was quite stringent. Sightings were broken down into six different characteristics--color, number, duration of observation, brightness, shape, and speed--and then these characteristics were compared between knowns and unknowns to see if there was a statistically significant difference. About 69% of the cases were judged known or identified; about 9% fell into insufficient information. About 22% were deemed "unknown," which was a considerably large margin of the cases when you consider the stringency of the analysis. In the known category, 86% of the knowns were aircraft, balloons, or had astronomical explanations. Only 1.5% of all cases were judged to be psychological or "crackpot" cases. A "miscellaneous" category comprised 8% of all cases and included possible hoaxes. The higher the quality of the case, the MORE likely it was to be classified unknown. Exactly the opposite of the propaganda we have been fed from believers and skeptics alike for more than 50 years. 35% of the excellent cases were deemed unknowns, whereas only 18% of the poorest cases. This was the exact opposite result predicted by skeptics, who usually argued unknowns were poorer quality cases involving unreliable witnesses that could be solved if only better information were available. In all six studied sighting characteristics, the unknowns were different from the knowns at a highly statistically significant level: in five of the six measures the odds of knowns differing from unknowns by chance was only 1% or less. When all six characteristics were considered together, the probability of a match between knowns and unknowns was less than 1 in a billion. Such baffling cases included a sighting by a DC-3 pilot, copilot and passenger during a flight in July, 1948. Heading toward them was an object without wings. As it passed to the starboard they saw two rows of lighted windows and a 50-foot trail of fire out behind it. The object suddenly went into a steep climb and disappeared into the clouds. This case was classified as "unknown" meaning the quality was good and there was enough sufficient evidence to convince all four of the skeptical analysts that it was something that defied all other explanations. Sightings by airforce pilots and commercial airline pilots were very common, many of which had encounters at veryy close proximity thus ruling out the skeptics arguments of misidentification. Close enough proximity to see windows on the craft, and to see in the windows, to be able to describe the colors and shape of the craft in detail. This defies all other explanation other than top secret government projects. However, had it been a project the analysts would have classified this a "known" under the category of aircraft, no need to elaborate. One case, from March 1950, judged Unknown and listed as Serial 1550.00, concerned an AF Reserve captain and an airline captain who were piloting a commercial plane. Both crew members watched a circular object pass in front of their plane a half-mile away. A brilliant light blinking at three flashes per second was sighted on the top of the strange craft and a fluorescent purple glow appeared through each of the nine to 12 portholes on the bottom. Visibility was excellent and the object's speed was judged to be more than 1,000 miles per hour. And these are just two examples of the MANY similar cases! And remember, Only 1.5% of all cases were judged to be psychological or "crackpot" cases. A "miscellaneous" category comprised 8% of all cases and included possible hoaxes. Neither of these cases were listed in either of these categories. It should also be noted that any sighting that included beings of any kind were literally thrown in the trash, which would of increased the number of unknowns substantially. When the Air Force finally made Special Report #14 public in October 1955, it was claimed that the report scientifically proved that UFOs did not exist. The report actually proved that the "unknowns" were distinctly different from the "knowns" at a very high statistical significance level. The Air Force also LIED when they claimed that only 3% of the cases studied were unknowns. In reality it was 22%. They further claimed that the residual 3% would probably disappear if more complete data were available. This ignored the fact that the analysts had already thrown such cases into the category of "insufficient information," whereas both "knowns" and "unknowns" were deemed to have sufficient information to make a determination. Also the "unknowns" tended to represent the higher quality cases (reports that already had better information and witnesses.) The result of the monumental BMI study was conclusive and provocative enough to inspire a 1979 French GEPAN report. The GEPAN report stated that about a quarter of over 1,600 closely studied UFO cases defied explanation, stating, in part, "These cases ... pose a real question." (Randles and Houghe, 202) When GEPAN's successor SEPRA closed in 2004, 5,800 cases had been thoroughly analyzed. The head of SEPRA, Dr. Jean-Jacques Velasco, found the evidence of extraterrestrial origins so convincing in these remaining unknowns, that he wrote a book about it in 2005. As for the Bolender Memo's significance, it once again PROVED the U.S. cover-up. "reports of unidentified flying objects which could affect national security are made in accordance with JANAP 146 or Air Force Manual 55-11, and are not part of the Blue Book system." -- Suggesting quality cases being sent elsewhere, and officially up until this point the Air Force has not admitted to studying the phenomenon on any level, and this is a proven lie. According to the Air Force, even to this day, Project Blue Book solved the UFO riddle and led senior officials to the conclusion that further investigation was by no means necessary. It was all a public relations act. The objective was never to get to the bottom of anything, at least not open towards the public, but instead to sway public interest and perception of the phenomenon in a time where sightings across the world from reliable witnesses were causing quite a stir -- It worked. The Condon Report was another example of further government funded propaganda. It was a University Study supported financially by the government (a desperate plee for an end to the UFO saga), of which has been since proven corrupt even by the skeptical scientific community. However, the United States government still dutifully stands by Mr. Condon's unfounded conclusion despite the matter of fact, even in replies to FOIA requests. Why continue to promote knowingly falsified information? Because the uninformed are more inclined to accept such a statement without validation. Such is the case with the general public these days. The Bolender Memo can be viewed in its entirety here. The Bolender Memo PROVES that the government has lied repeatedly when asked if they are still investigating the phenomenon. "US Navy Pilot, Lieutenant Frederick Fox There is a [military] publication called JANAP 146E that has a section that says you will not reveal any information regarding the UFO phenomenon under penalty of $10,000 fine and ten years in jail. So the secret has been kept." You can view the JANAP 146 E document in its entirety here. Therefore, the more significant cases are certainly locked up in government vaults. One might beg the question, why would this be so if there was "nothing to hide"? Sources: UFOs and the National Security State, by Richard Dolan Top Secret/Majic, by Stanton Friedman Alien Agenda, by Jim Marrs Wikipedia "Secret" Airforce Study Says UFOs are Real, by Stanton Friedman and B. Ann Slate The Black Vault Need I say more??? I have more confirmatory evidence if further clarification is needed. If you disagree with the information I provide, you are obligated to back your bold claims with verifiable sources confirming my original post as "BS". It seems you choose rather to speculate and theorize from the safety of your arm chair rather than doing the actual research necessary to prove a point. |
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| Original GTA Master-ZNR | Feb 14 2007, 01:27 AM Post #18 |
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Ummm did you copy all of this? It seems like people keep trying to stop the conversating in here with extremely large post...because everyone stops posting after these large post...STOP POST SO DAMN MUCH! I believe they have unidentified flying objects held in government facilities such as Area-51. Simply because these are aircrafts that the airforce uses in war and we can't have any leaks. "Loose Lips, Sink Ships" is an old saying from WWII and I think they have been keeping everything secret so that nothing gets leaked out to the public just for it to leak out to other countries and ****. As for flying saucers and alien space craft, I do believe the government is keeping this kind of info from us as well, and I think they're even possibly using this possible alien technology to create our air craft. |
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| calico131 | Feb 14 2007, 01:56 AM Post #19 |
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Well he thinks finding conspiracy quotes is going to get people to believe him, but we all know there are millions of websites out there that say the government isnt withholding info. |
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| Orbed | Feb 14 2007, 02:20 AM Post #20 |
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You know, we dont look for big green, long fingered, scary looking creatures. We are looking for small microscopic lifeforms on other planets. |
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| Silicon Hero | Feb 14 2007, 09:31 AM Post #21 |
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There may be aliens, but we can be certain that they haven't visited us. Why? Because the speed of light cannot be broken. |
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| italianmafia23 | Feb 14 2007, 02:30 PM Post #22 |
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Ah, the common argument of impossible distances. That is a true statement when you are talking about primitive propulsion techniques and excluding theoretical physics. New theories in physics and astrophysics allow for faster than light speed travel, but not on a consistent travel course from point A to point B, but from bringing point A to point B by bending the fabric of space and time itself. Here are a few links you may find interesting: Michio Kaku: One of the most respected Theoretical Physicists since Einstein speaking on the behalf of UFO's and ET Civilizations. http://www.exn.ca/video/?video=exn20050408-et.asx (short video) http://www.mkaku.org/articles/physics_of_alien_civs.shtml http://www.mkaku.org/articles/physics_of_space_travel.shtml David Sereda's Work: http://ufonasa.terra-ent.com/ http://ufonasa.terra-ent.com/2_Sereda.htm http://ufonasa.terra-ent.com/2_galaxyClock.htm http://ufonasa.terra-ent.com/2_tether.htm http://www.intalek.com/AV/David-Sereda-1.wma (audio interview) http://www.intalek.com/AV/David-Sereda-2.wma (audio interview) Stanton Friedman: http://www.konsulting.com/friedman6-L3.wav (Science says you can't get there from here, but Friedman says that just not true) http://www.geocities.com/saufor/otherpaper...propulsion.html (UFO propulsion systems by Stanton Friedman) I think it is important to ask the proper questions in a debate such as this. As Dr. David M. Jacobs of Temple University once said:
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| italianmafia23 | Feb 14 2007, 02:39 PM Post #23 |
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First of all, these aren't random conspiracy quotes gathered from various subjective conspiracy websites. Project Blue Book Special Report #14 is available for PUBLIC examination so is verifiable. The entire article, of which I did NOT simply copy and paste, is composed only of verifiable bits of data and information. If you so wish you may send a FOIA request to the specified agencies to verify the validity of the provided documents yourself. Back to anti-gravity propulsion Anti-gravity propulsion is a possibility and if advanced to a point could become an instantaneous form of transportation. Our government according to sources has allegedly successfully reverse engineered or possibly even retrieved a crashed saucer that was still intact. These space craft did not exceed light speed by traveling at a constant velocity in a straight line from point A to point B as you might think. Instead these space craft "jump" from point A to point B as a result of the anti-gravity propulsion system that warps space and time around it. In a way it is quite similar to teleportation because there are no obstacles to avoid during the trip. They simply "jump" to a pre-determined location in space and time. In a way, these particular craft being described are more so time machines than they are space craft. Anti-gravity propulsion and teleportation may sound like science fiction but maybe you should take a look at the truth: http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/05...eportation.html http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/06...ntigravity.html http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/gravity/gravitsapa.htm http://www.americanantigravity.com/article...ription-of-HFGW http://www.americanantigravity.com/article...nal-Transistors http://www.americanantigravity.com/video/H...n-Heavy-Mix.wmv (Amazing anti-gravity demonstration video) http://www.americanantigravity.com/video/R...b_7_18_2005.wmv With the age of our galaxy, the age of many of these civilizations is undoubtedly great. So, with that we can safely conclude that with a few billion years more knowledge than us they would undoubtedly be capable of interstellar travel at the instantaneous level. If this is a capability of an extraterrestrial civilization in our galaxy then it wouldn't take very long to survey every star system in the entire galaxy. Of course, this would take a great deal of time but could be completed within a few thousand years at the most. Our galaxy is considerably old in comparison with other galaxies in the universe so it is very likely that we are the new kids on the block available for study, surveillance, and guidance when needed. Our galaxy has nearly used up most of its available star dust as compared to other galaxies that appear to be very murky in appearance by the abundance of star dust present that has yet to condense to form habitable star systems. The average age of the stars within the galactic habitable zone of our galaxy, which the earth also resides, is about 10,000,000,000 years older than our sun! Suggesting the very high likelihood of civilizations extremely advanced far beyond our own. Just imagine the possibilities of a civilization in which has had even a fraction of that time to evolve! The earth is extremely young by the galactic standards of our galaxy. Therfore, one cannot discount the very likely and probable possibility that earth is indeed being visited and studied by civilizations far in advance of our own. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- By Leonard David Senior Space Writer states, ”Decades ago, it was physicist Enrico Fermi who pondered the issue of extraterrestrial civilizations with fellow theorists over lunch, generating the famous quip: "Where are they?" Now a team of American scientists note that recent astrophysical discoveries suggest that we should find ourselves in the midst of one or more extraterrestrial civilizations. Moreover, they argue it is a mistake to reject all UFO reports since some evidence for the theoretically-predicted extraterrestrial visitors might just be found there. The researchers make their proposal in the January/February 2005 issue of the Journal of the British Interplanetary Society (JBIS). Pick up any good science magazine and you’re sure to see the latest in head-scratching ideas about superstring theory, wormholes, or the stretching of spacetime itself. Meanwhile, extrasolar planetary detection is on the verge of becoming mundane. "We are in the curious situation today that our best modern physics and astrophysics theories predict that we should be experiencing extraterrestrial visitation, yet any possible evidence of such lurking in the UFO phenomenon is scoffed at within our scientific community," contends astrophysicist Bernard Haisch, along with physicists James Deardorff, Bruce Maccabee and Harold Puthoff make their case in the JBIS article: "Inflation-Theory Implications for Extraterrestrial Visitation". The scientists point to two key discoveries made by Australian astronomers and reported last year that there is a "galactic habitable zone" in our Milky Way Galaxy. And more importantly that Earth’s own star, the Sun, is relatively young in comparison to the average star in this zone -- by as much as a billion years. Therefore, the researchers explain in their JBIS article that an average alien civilization would be far more advanced and have long since discovered Earth. Additionally, other research work on the supposition underlying the Big Bang -- known as the theory of inflation -- shores up the prospect, they advise, that our world is immersed in a much larger extraterrestrial civilization. Point-to-point distances Given billion-year advanced physics, might not buzzing around the galaxy be possible? Even today superstring theory hypothesizes other dimensions... which could be habitable Universes adjacent to our own, the researchers speculate. It might even be possible to get around the speed of light limit by moving in and out of these dimensions. "What we have done is somewhat of a breakthrough," Haisch told SPACE.com. "We have pulled together various recent discoveries and theoretical issues that collectively point to the strong probability that we should be in the midst of one or more huge extraterrestrial civilizations," he said. Haisch said that superstring dimensions and wormhole and spacetime stretching possibilities address the "can’t get here from there" objection often argued in view of the interstellar, point-to-point distances involved. Also, diffusion models predict that even a single civilization could spread across the Galaxy in a tiny fraction of the age of the Galaxy - even at sub-light speeds, he said. ET signature in the data Can the scientific community bring itself to consider any evidence coming from mysterious sightings of strange things by the public? In large measure, the scientific community seemingly has eyed ET visitation as far from being serious stuff to cogitate over. Why so? "The dismissal has several causes, all reinforcing each other," Haisch responded. "Most of the observations are probably misinterpretations, delusions and hoaxes. I have seen people get confused by Venus or even Sirius when it is flashing colors low in the sky under the right conditions. Having been turned off by this, most scientists never bother to look any further, and so are simply blissfully ignorant that there may be more to it," he said. Deardorff, the lead author of the JBIS article, points out in a press statement: "It would take some humility for the scientific community to suspend its judgment and take at least some of the high quality reports seriously enough to investigate…but I hope we can bring ourselves to do that." According to Haisch, there is a motivation not just for scientific tolerance of the UFO issue, but a strong scientific prediction that there ought to be some genuine ET signature in the data. "This potentially changes the relationship of the UFO phenomenon to science in a significant way. It takes away the ‘not invented here’ prejudice, pointing out that a ‘yes’ to ET visitation is exactly what side our current physics and astrophysics theories would come down on as the most likely situation," Haisch concluded. Thanks to Harold Puthoff and Leonard David Senior Space Writer. JBIS Article "Inflation-Theory Implications for Extraterrestrial Visitation": http://www.ufoskeptic.org/JBIS.pdf |
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| ForgottenLord | Feb 14 2007, 03:24 PM Post #24 |
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Government has kept several things hidden for public, so I don't see why they wouldn't try to hide this from us. |
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| italianmafia23 | Feb 16 2007, 03:11 PM Post #25 |
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I apologize for another long post, I'm just attempting to justify my perspective with verifiable facts. One way to definitively prove the UFO cover-up by scientific and mathematical means is through careful analysis of the Roswell event. Let us analyze the governments proclaimed truth behind the controversial Roswell enigma, shall we? There are a number of critical flaws in the Mogul balloon theory that was put forth by the government and supported and embraced by debunker's. The first thing is, the material description by no means correlates to the material found by Mac Brazel and company. Everything that a Mogul balloon was comprised of was conventional off-the-shelf material. The only thing top secret about project Mogul were the operations it carried out. So the proclamations of how top secret project Mogul itself was were LIES! The Air Force stated that the Mogul Balloon probably came from a June 4th or June 14th launching (flight #9 or flight #4). However, this is an impossibility. All balloons of the current time period were made of Neoprene not Polyethylene as is the case nowadays. The military made the switch a few years later from Neoprene to Polyethylene because it was discovered that Neoprene when subject to periods of prolonged sun exposure rapidly deteriorated and would have NEVER lasted until early July in the hot dry desert weather of New Mexico as the military claimed. This fact was also substantiated by skeptic Dr. C. B. Moore in his 1997 book "UFO Crash at Roswell: The Genesis of a Modern Myth". Moore was also former Mogul project engineer. It should also be noted that Mac Brazel had recovered weather balloons on his ranch in the past. In fact, more than once. Bessie Brazel (one of Mac's children): "No, it was definitely not a balloon. We had seen weather balloons quite a lot, both on the ground and in the air. We had even found a couple of Japanese-style balloons that had come down in the area once. We had also picked up a couple of those thin rubber weather balloons with instrument packages. This was nothing like that. I have never seen anything resembling this sort of thing before,- or since..." According to Charles Moore, Flight 4 consisted of 28 neoprene, meteorological-sounding balloons attached to a 600-foot-long master line of braided nylon cord, three ML-307B rawin radar targets, possibly one or more silk-canopy parachutes, a sonobuoy microphone, radio transmitter, dry cells, and plastic containers holding solid and liquid ballast. All components and systems were ordinary off-the-shelf items; again, only the Mogul program objective was classified. There were two types of debris at the site: (1) foil-like pieces easily crumpled by hand which completely recovered their original shape and showed no signs of wrinkling when released; and (2) pieces which could not be deformed or damaged by any means, even when whacked with a 16-pound sledgehammer. Neither of the materials could be cut or burned. A rectangular debris field shape is implicit in Marcel’s description. For that configuration, the debris would have littered an area equal to 250 ft (average width) x 4,000 ft (about ¾ of a mile) long = 1,000,000 ft2. That is a total area of nearly 23 acres! A mathematical model was used to estimate the quantity of unconventional thin-shell material on the Foster ranch. The model’s parabolic field has the same overall dimensions described by Major Marcel: 250 feet wide (at its far end) by 4,000 feet long. But it encompasses only 667,000 ft2 (about 15 acres) of pasture, 33% less ground area than that contained in the rectangular configuration. It’s absolutely inconceivable that anybody could have mistaken pieces of neoprene balloon film, whether brand new or sun-deteriorated, and silk fabric for either one of the two highly unconventional shell-like materials described. By the process of elimination, that leaves the radar targets as the only possible Flight 4 source for the thinshell fragments found at the site. "These targets consisted of nine right-triangular segments with 24-inch-long bases and heights. Each segment consisted of a panel of aluminum foil laminated to some fairly tough, heavy-duty paper and deployed on balsa wood struts." -- C. B. Moore Let Area 1 denote the model-estimated surface area of on-ground, thin-shell debris. This parameter, calculated is equal to 6,880 ft2. To give the Mogul hypothesis a fighting chance, assume that all three targets landed on the pasture and were broken apart and shredded into pieces of varying size. The total laminate surface area (Area 2) is equal to 3 targets X 18 ft2 / target = 54 ft2. Compare the two surface areas by dividing Area 1 by Area 2. We obtain 6,880 ft2 / 54 ft2 = 127.4. This number tells us that it would take more than 127 Flight 4 balloon trains -- more than 381 radar targets -- to litter the field! The model’s debris coverage density is 6,880 ft2 / 667,000 ft2 = 0.0103 (1.03% overall coverage) -- at the lower end of the arbitrary acceptable range. Nearly 99% of the simulated field is debris-free or uncovered, confirming the desired conservative nature of the model. The mathematical analysis indicated better than a two order-of-magnitude disparity between the amount of thin-shell material on the ground (by all accounts—a lot) and what Mogul Flight 4 could have supplied (very little). This enormous difference provides a comfortable margin for error. For example, even if the model’s surface-area estimate is off by a factor of 10 (unlikely), it would still require nearly 13 balloon trains (via 688 ft2 x 54 ft2) or 39 targets to generate the shredded shell fragments found at the site. I stated that an over estimate by a factor of 10 would be unlikely because, based on Major Jesse A. Marcel Sr.'s testimony, the debris field was, indeed, incredibly large. "... about as far as you could see ..." Further mathematical details nailing the Mogul theory into it's coffin can be found here: http://www.cufos.org/ros4.html In conclusion we now have mathematical PROOF that the government COVERED UP the truth of what really happened in Roswell. It was NOT project Mogul. The United States government has once again pulled the wool over the public's eyes. I feel the extra emphasis was warranted to account for unwarranted negativity towards the Roswell event and blind acceptance of the Air Force excuses by the citizens of the United States and the world. Is this proof the Roswell event was extraterrestrial? No. However, this is proof of a cover-up. Case Closed. |
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12:41 PM Jul 13