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In God We Trust
Topic Started: Jul 20 2007, 07:05 PM (720 Views)
.Koda
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Yeah, I went there
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Honestly, I think that it is truly sad that our government is listening to these people that come over here, And make us: 1. Speak Their language 2. Abide by their religious beliefs 3. Remove anything that doesn't follow their lifestyles.

I have no problem having people come to our country, but i dont think we should live by their rules. If they migrate over here, then that was their choice. we shouldn't have to speak their languages, and follow their rules, or laws, and remove God from school, or from public places.

In the pledge of allegiance, It says "One nation, Under god" and they are thinking of taking that out of our school systems.
I think that some people should know that the treasury office is debating on removing "In god we trust" from the US Currency.

Generations have gone by, and have followed this system and its worked so well. We start to change and start to manipulate it, and we're gonna end up crashing our beloved society. Our Four-Fathers have set out our best interests at heart and have constructed this great land, Dont change the ways that we lived by for centuries.



Stand With Me my fellow brothers and sisters, and fight for what we lived by for centuries before our birth. Stand With Me my fellow brothers and sisters, and fight for what we should live by for centuries to come. Stand With Me and Fight for what our society placed on us when we first became an independent nation.

I ask for you to join me!
If you stand by me, please feel free to contact me saying you Agree. Your name will be added to a petition that i am starting and you will be honored by our children, grandchildren, and children to be.


My Name is Ryan A. And I Live As A Free American After My Fathers fought for my freedom. After My Country Constructed Itself. After God Placed me on this earth.

Fight For It!


The above was an email that i sent out to a bunch of friends.

Now Before i let this go open to discussion, I want to say, that i have nothing wrong with other religions, other laws, other governments, or other people. Nothing wrong with other people moving to the United States. None of that. I just dont think we should change our laws to suit their needs because their government didnt.

~Ryan A. | Hollywood177
Ryan_Arnold01@hotmail.com | Ryan_Arnold@graphix-fantasy.net

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AgnosticAngel
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I honestly don't have an issue with those terms being there but I also wouldn't particularly care if they were removed. I would be upset if my child were forced to recite it, but in my own experience no one cared nor even noticed if you left out "under god." I do not think religion belongs in law, but as text on coinage or in the pledge of allegiance all it says to me is that much of this country was founded by Christians. There is nothing wrong with knowing your history and I know a great deal of U.S. history is tied up with religion. My money saying that does not somehow force me to believe in God, it's just money to me.
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Myriad
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Doesn't it say somewhere in the US constitution or one of your laws that there must be a separation of church and state? Seems like this would be a natural step to take.

Also, last time I checked, not all Americans believe in God so it seems a little odd that one religion would be so blatantly favoured over other religions or a lack thereof.

I'm also really curious how you figure that immigrants are the main cause of this, even if the US's borders were sealed and no immigration allowed the above would still be true.
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Epsilekt
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Myrdaal
Jul 20 2007, 07:20 PM
Doesn't it say somewhere in the US constitution or one of your laws that there must be a separation of church and state? Seems like this would be a natural step to take.

Exactly.
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Ross
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First off, no I don't think it should be on there. Putting the label of God on an item that is involved with so much corruption seems quite blasphemous. The question we have to ask ourselves is really, "In light of today's culture would it be a positive or negative move to remove 'In God We Trust' from our currency." It's not like we are deciding on whether or not it should go on the bills, but whether or not enough is there to justify it being taken off. I would say that until the culture becomes a little more secularized, it should remain. Not that I am hoping for secularization, but one has to admit theism is much more prevalence then atheism in Western culture.
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Feignt
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Ross
Jul 20 2007, 07:11 PM
First off, no I don't think it should be on there. Putting the label of God on an item that is involved with so much corruption seems quite blasphemous. The question we have to ask ourselves is really, "In light of today's culture would it be a positive or negative move to remove 'In God We Trust' from our currency." It's not like we are deciding on whether or not it should go on the bills, but whether or not enough is there to justify it being taken off. I would say that until the culture becomes a little more secularized, it should remain. Not that I am hoping for secularization, but one has to admit theism is much more prevalence then atheism in Western culture.

Dang you Ross, you said much of what I was going to say. <_<

It would take a while anyway. They would need to change all of the presses, etc. involved in making currency.

I wasn't going to say that it shouldn't be there for that reason, but I believe it shouldn't be there nonetheless.
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Raistlin244
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"In God we trust" and "One nation under God" are not being changed merely because of immigrants. Do you not realize that a goodly number of Americans are NOT CHRISTIAN?

Also, in my schools Student Rights and Regulations thing that we are forced to sign, it says that we're allowed to stand or sit quietly during the pledge of allegiance, I know, I have it highlighted. It's in my pocket every day in case a teacher decides to tell me to stand and be respectful or something. :D

I would love it if these things were removed. It would be a good step towards breaking the US link to Christianity. Because it's really annoying. Not every American is Christian and some of us are quite pissed that that generalization is made.
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.esoteric
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hollywood177
Jul 20 2007, 11:05 PM
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Honestly, I think that it is truly sad that our government is listening to these people that come over here, And make us: 1. Speak Their language 2. Abide by their religious beliefs 3. Remove anything that doesn't follow their lifestyles.

I have no problem having people come to our country, but i dont think we should live by their rules. If they migrate over here, then that was their choice. we shouldn't have to speak their languages, and follow their rules, or laws, and remove God from school, or from public places.

In the pledge of allegiance, It says "One nation, Under god" and they are thinking of taking that out of our school systems.
I think that some people should know that the treasury office is debating on removing "In god we trust" from the US Currency.

Generations have gone by, and have followed this system and its worked so well. We start to change and start to manipulate it, and we're gonna end up crashing our beloved society. Our Four-Fathers have set out our best interests at heart and have constructed this great land, Dont change the ways that we lived by for centuries.



Stand With Me my fellow brothers and sisters, and fight for what we lived by for centuries before our birth. Stand With Me my fellow brothers and sisters, and fight for what we should live by for centuries to come. Stand With Me and Fight for what our society placed on us when we first became an independent nation.

I ask for you to join me!
If you stand by me, please feel free to contact me saying you Agree. Your name will be added to a petition that i am starting and you will be honored by our children, grandchildren, and children to be.


My Name is Ryan A. And I Live As A Free American After My Fathers fought for my freedom. After My Country Constructed Itself. After God Placed me on this earth.

Fight For It!


The above was an email that i sent out to a bunch of friends.

Now Before i let this go open to discussion, I want to say, that i have nothing wrong with other religions, other laws, other governments, or other people. Nothing wrong with other people moving to the United States. None of that. I just dont think we should change our laws to suit their needs because their government didnt.

~Ryan A. | Hollywood177
Ryan_Arnold01@hotmail.com | Ryan_Arnold@graphix-fantasy.net

Everything you said immigrants are doing in your email you've already done to the Indians. You've made them all speak English, put the name of a god they don't believe in on the currency of what should rightfully be their country.

Also, nobody is making you "abide by their religious beliefs, not to mention that immigrants majoritally come from Mexico or Latin America recently and for the most part are Catholic so that itself throws that whole statement out.

There are more problems with your argument but I don't have the time right now to comment on all of it.
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Colin.
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In my opinion, being forced to put Spanish or French directions or warning labels on products is silly. Simply put, before you move to America, you should know basic English. :/

However, about removing God from things, I'm completely for it. This country was not based on pushing religious beliefs onto others. It was built on freedom.
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.Chris
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Raistlin244
Jul 20 2007, 08:44 PM
"In God we trust" and "One nation under God" are not being changed merely because of immigrants. Do you not realize that a goodly number of Americans are NOT CHRISTIAN?

Also, in my schools Student Rights and Regulations thing that we are forced to sign, it says that we're allowed to stand or sit quietly during the pledge of allegiance, I know, I have it highlighted. It's in my pocket every day in case a teacher decides to tell me to stand and be respectful or something. :D

I would love it if these things were removed. It would be a good step towards breaking the US link to Christianity. Because it's really annoying. Not every American is Christian and some of us are quite pissed that that generalization is made.

Not to be argumentative, but does it really offend you? I think most people do realize that, but why does it really need to be changed? I'm not particularly religious, but I don't mind saying it, or just leaving it out. Also, I don't mean to impede on your rights, but the entire Pledge of Allegiance doesn't revolve around that one line. Wouldn't sitting mean you are disagreeing with the entire pledge and everything it stands for? I mean, if you do, it is your right not to stand. But if that is the case, why are you even here? I dunno, I never understood the boycotting of the Pledge. I know people at my old school used to boycott it just to seem like they were making a statement and not following the social norm. Not that I think that's what you are doing. And I didn't mean to sound angry or offending :)

I think that we should keep it on the coins, and "under God" as well. America was founded by Christians (Yes, I know about what it says in the constitution, that wasn't my point.) it seems a shame to take out either of them when they date back to extremely early in our country's history. It wouldn't be the end of the world for me if it was removed from the coins, but it seems like it's acknowledging part of our country's heritage.

As for the immigration thing, I think if you move to, or visit another country, it is common courtesy to learn the native language. If someone moves here permanently I think that they should speak the language, or learn to speak the language as soon as possible. I went to Germany for 11 days, and I spent 3 weeks learning some basic German so that I could be a semi-participant in some conversation over there, and not make them try to speak English.

My bottom line view is: If you are the immigrant, you adapt, not the other way around. If you are an illegal immigrant, you get out.

Bring on the flame :rolleyes: :r
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Mr.Wolff
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I would just like to start out by saying, that if I'm not mistaken it IS in the "U.S. Constitution" that there is suppose to be a seperation of church and state. But I would also like to point out, that what is stated is impossible. The seperation of church and state is like seperating hydrogen and oxygen molecules from water by hand. Anyway, this country was founded on religious sanctions. Think about, it is a crime to murder and steal. Where did that come from, it may have been from mother England but they most likely got it from Moses and his fifteen...I mean ten commandments. (History of the World Prt 1 Reference btw)

Anyway, perhaps this is just the sleep talking but maybe this shouldn't be an issue to begin with. This is not like an invasion of one culture into another. This is an assimilation of all cultures to fit together in a melting pot that doesn't include singling out people, or making them feel left out and unwanted.

I don't believe in god, I am buddhist personally but I wouldn't expect them to put in Buddha we trust. I don't think he would like that very much. I also think, that people are putting way to much emphasis on the pledge in school. It has nothing to do with religious belief at all. I'm not sure about the majority but my school stopped playing the pledge when I hit middle school. Before hand they teach the children unity, pride for their nation, and brother/sisterhood. It isn't like, BELIEVE IN GOD OR DIE! This isn't the crusades, it just happens to be god because that is how it was written X amount of years ago.

As for the money issue, does it matter what is says on money? Personally it all goes into my checking account that I use a card for, but really, do you sit around and examine every bill for hours on end because it says "In God We Trust". Typically when I have cash it is in the wallet and gone within the next two days. Seriously though, look at the penny. It costs 1.5 pennies to make an actually penny, and maybe taking "In God We Trust" off the money, the government can actually save some money?

Not to belittle anyone but if that is the most of your worries than your mind must be stuck in a tiny little bubble. There are children starving in africa, wars going on, and the percent of poverty stricten residents is unbelievably high. I would think that a few of those questions would be better suited for a forum headed, "Brain Juice".
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.Koda
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it seems that many have told me that many people in the US are not christian, and that its not the immigrants' fault....

I never said it was ALL their fault. it is based on people that dont follow US government, school, and language though...

And i believe that religion should be allowed in schools and in public.

Not just Christian but others too. But i dont think that we shouldn't be allowed to talk about God and other christian beliefs in school to our friends just because "Mr. Atheist" here gets offended by it. If thats the way it is, they should: A. not listen to the conversation, B. Move to another table, or C. Just leave totally. Its not like people force people to learn their religions...

My friend got in trouble for talking to me about what happened at Youth group the night before and our teacher overheard him telling me a verse of what the paster said.

I think that if kids want to talk about religion in school or in a public place, it shouldn't be discouraged. It would help alot with crime these days... i mean alot of criminals just dont believe in god and were not religiously active...
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Raistlin244
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.Chris
Jul 21 2007, 03:13 AM
Raistlin244
Jul 20 2007, 08:44 PM
"In God we trust" and "One nation under God" are not being changed merely because of immigrants. Do you not realize that a goodly number of Americans are NOT CHRISTIAN?

Also, in my schools Student Rights and Regulations thing that we are forced to sign, it says that we're allowed to stand or sit quietly during the pledge of allegiance, I know, I have it highlighted. It's in my pocket every day in case a teacher decides to tell me to stand and be respectful or something. :D

I would love it if these things were removed. It would be a good step towards breaking the US link to Christianity. Because it's really annoying. Not every American is Christian and some of us are quite pissed that that generalization is made.

Not to be argumentative, but does it really offend you? I think most people do realize that, but why does it really need to be changed? I'm not particularly religious, but I don't mind saying it, or just leaving it out. Also, I don't mean to impede on your rights, but the entire Pledge of Allegiance doesn't revolve around that one line. Wouldn't sitting mean you are disagreeing with the entire pledge and everything it stands for? I mean, if you do, it is your right not to stand. But if that is the case, why are you even here? I dunno, I never understood the boycotting of the Pledge. I know people at my old school used to boycott it just to seem like they were making a statement and not following the social norm. Not that I think that's what you are doing. And I didn't mean to sound angry or offending :)

I think that we should keep it on the coins, and "under God" as well. America was founded by Christians (Yes, I know about what it says in the constitution, that wasn't my point.) it seems a shame to take out either of them when they date back to extremely early in our country's history. It wouldn't be the end of the world for me if it was removed from the coins, but it seems like it's acknowledging part of our country's heritage.

As for the immigration thing, I think if you move to, or visit another country, it is common courtesy to learn the native language. If someone moves here permanently I think that they should speak the language, or learn to speak the language as soon as possible. I went to Germany for 11 days, and I spent 3 weeks learning some basic German so that I could be a semi-participant in some conversation over there, and not make them try to speak English.

My bottom line view is: If you are the immigrant, you adapt, not the other way around. If you are an illegal immigrant, you get out.

Bring on the flame :rolleyes: :r

Mildly offended, yeah. It's when people go and assume everyone's Christian that I get really offended.

I sit because I don't need to pledge my allegiance to what's seeming like a country so in doubt that I need to reaffirm that I stand with it every day. I pledge my allegiance the first day of the year. That's all anyone should need.

And heck yes, it is the immigrant's job to learn the language.


Hollywood - I'm not saying to cut religion out of schools. I'm saying cut it out of stuff that really affects people. Things that matter. Like the pledge of allegiance. I could care less if you have a religious conversation with your friend or have a bible study group during lunch. Heck, I talk about religion all the time in school. Near the end this was when I was explaining to some idiot that just because I'm not Christian that doesn't mean I'm an atheist, but whatever.
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AgnosticAngel
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You go to an odd school.

I've gone to public schools all my life and religion has never been forbidden. The only thing that is not allowed is teachers to preach religion, and that makes perfect sense.

My elementary school worked with a neighborhood church and we were allowed to leave an hour early every Tuesday to go to a church group (when I was still Christian hehe).

My highschool had religious clubs and in my humanities class we read from the Bible, Koran, Rig Veda, and various other religious texts. The only thing really not allowed in public institutions is the preaching of a religion.

Currently I go to a public university and not only is there a student run church and various clubs, but many buildings even have prayer areas for those who need a quiet place to pray on campus. Granted there are many Atheist clubs and such too, but both are present and if anything the religious groups are more prominent.

Edit: Typos, lives = life hehe
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Flash.
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hollywood177
Jul 21 2007, 04:19 AM
it seems that many have told me that many people in the US are not christian, and that its not the immigrants' fault....

I never said it was ALL their fault. it is based on people that dont follow US government, school, and language though...

And i believe that religion should be allowed in schools and in public.

Not just Christian but others too. But i dont think that we shouldn't be allowed to talk about God and other christian beliefs in school to our friends just because "Mr. Atheist" here gets offended by it. If thats the way it is, they should: A. not listen to the conversation, B. Move to another table, or C. Just leave totally. Its not like people force people to learn their religions...

My friend got in trouble for talking to me about what happened at Youth group the night before and our teacher overheard him telling me a verse of what the paster said.

I think that if kids want to talk about religion in school or in a public place, it shouldn't be discouraged. It would help alot with crime these days... i mean alot of criminals just dont believe in god and were not religiously active...

I'm sorry but that is utterly fake. Most criminals have been religious, and unless you have proof otherwise, what you said is just made up to support your opinion.

The main reason I'm against religion in schools, is because almost all the time the people in school IMPOSE the religion on kids, and try to convince them that if they do otherwise they will go to hell. Please remember that this is all belief, and it might/might not be true.

It's like telling a woman if they have their period will make them go to a hell like place because it's against their religion(JUST AN EXAMPLE, NOT CHRISTIANITY).
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