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In God We Trust
Topic Started: Jul 20 2007, 07:05 PM (723 Views)
Colin.
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she was this androgynist
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Just because our country was founded by Christians doesn't mean it was founded on Christianity.
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.Koda
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Yeah, I went there
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Dante.
Jul 20 2007, 11:51 PM
hollywood177
Jul 21 2007, 04:19 AM
it seems that many have told me that many people in the US are not christian, and that its not the immigrants' fault....

I never said it was ALL their fault. it is based on people that dont follow US government, school, and language though...

And i believe that religion should be allowed in schools and in public.

Not just Christian but others too. But i dont think that we shouldn't be allowed to talk about God and other christian beliefs in school to our friends just because "Mr. Atheist" here gets offended by it. If thats the way it is, they should: A. not listen to the conversation, B. Move to another table, or C. Just leave totally. Its not like people force people to learn their religions...

My friend got in trouble for talking to me about what happened at Youth group the night before and our teacher overheard him telling me a verse of what the paster said.

I think that if kids want to talk about religion in school or in a public place, it shouldn't be discouraged. It would help alot with crime these days... i mean alot of criminals just dont believe in god and were not religiously active...

I'm sorry but that is utterly fake. Most criminals have been religious, and unless you have proof otherwise, what you said is just made up to support your opinion.

The main reason I'm against religion in schools, is because almost all the time the people in school IMPOSE the religion on kids, and try to convince them that if they do otherwise they will go to hell. Please remember that this is all belief, and it might/might not be true.

It's like telling a woman if they have their period will make them go to a hell like place because it's against their religion(JUST AN EXAMPLE, NOT CHRISTIANITY).

Alright, what i said there wasn't entirely accurate... i was alittle hot-headed.

But Colin., I know thats not what our country was based on, but we placed these things on what we planned to use everyday, and we set guidelines on our society, Why should we change?
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ExiledSoldier
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To Holmgard and Beyond
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hollywood177
 

Dante.
Jul 20 2007, 11:51 PM
hollywood177
Jul 21 2007, 04:19 AM
it seems that many have told me that many people in the US are not christian, and that its not the immigrants' fault....

I never said it was ALL their fault. it is based on people that dont follow US government, school, and language though...

And i believe that religion should be allowed in schools and in public.

Not just Christian but others too. But i dont think that we shouldn't be allowed to talk about God and other christian beliefs in school to our friends just because "Mr. Atheist" here gets offended by it. If thats the way it is, they should: A. not listen to the conversation, B. Move to another table, or C. Just leave totally. Its not like people force people to learn their religions...

My friend got in trouble for talking to me about what happened at Youth group the night before and our teacher overheard him telling me a verse of what the paster said.

I think that if kids want to talk about religion in school or in a public place, it shouldn't be discouraged. It would help alot with crime these days... i mean alot of criminals just dont believe in god and were not religiously active...

I'm sorry but that is utterly fake. Most criminals have been religious, and unless you have proof otherwise, what you said is just made up to support your opinion.

The main reason I'm against religion in schools, is because almost all the time the people in school IMPOSE the religion on kids, and try to convince them that if they do otherwise they will go to hell. Please remember that this is all belief, and it might/might not be true.

It's like telling a woman if they have their period will make them go to a hell like place because it's against their religion(JUST AN EXAMPLE, NOT CHRISTIANITY).

Alright, what i said there wasn't entirely accurate... i was alittle hot-headed.

But Colin., I know thats not what our country was based on, but we placed these things on what we planned to use everyday, and we set guidelines on our society, Why should we change?


Why change now? Because as time goes on, more and more people are becoming non-religious. Its only proper to adapt to the changing times.
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.Koda
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its worked for over centuries, Why change? If we change, we risk things...
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ExiledSoldier
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we dont risk anything by taking words out of a pledge or off of currency. Centuries ago, you were either religious or a witch. Which one would you choose? It doesn't make sense to keep the words if they don't apply to all citizens.
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.Enigmatik
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Colin.
Jul 21 2007, 05:19 AM
Just because our country was founded by Christians doesn't mean it was founded on Christianity.

Uh... yes it does.

Do you people realize by increasing your rights, you decrease ours?

I noticed that in some schools girls can wear bangles, but not roseary. How would YOU like it if we went around saying you can't talk about YOUR religion? DO you realize that by preaching about your athiesm, you are doing the same thing you disgust? I recommend you get your act together and think logically about all YOUR problems with yourself before seeing 1 flaw in yourself and seeing 1,000 in another. Just because you think something is right, I could care less about. If you want to say your proud to be an Athiest, good. If you want to say your proud to be your religion, good. But quit being a hypocrite and grow a damn brain!

(Pun not intended.)

(Btw, colin, that whole post wasn't directed at you, it was directed at the Athiests.)
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ExiledSoldier
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.Enigmatik
Jul 20 2007, 10:44 PM
Colin.
Jul 21 2007, 05:19 AM
Just because our country was founded by Christians doesn't mean it was founded on Christianity.

Uh... yes it does.

Do you people realize by increasing your rights, you decrease ours?

I noticed that in some schools girls can wear bangles, but not roseary. How would YOU like it if we went around saying you can't talk about YOUR religion? DO you realize that by preaching about your athiesm, you are doing the same thing you disgust? I recommend you get your act together and think logically about all YOUR problems with yourself before seeing 1 flaw in yourself and seeing 1,000 in another. Just because you think something is right, I could care less about. If you want to say your proud to be an Athiest, good. If you want to say your proud to be your religion, good. But quit being a hypocrite and grow a damn brain!

(Pun not intended.)

(Btw, colin, that whole post wasn't directed at you, it was directed at the Athiests.)

I wouldn't want anyone to 'preach' athiesm. Athiesm isn't a religion, its the lack of. So by removing God we didn't remove the rights of religious people but have equaled the rights of everyone.
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AgnosticAngel
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Where are you guys hearing the preaching? I just can't relate! I went to public schools all my life and was never exposed to preaching from either side :/

As far as what a specific school does you realize this is something to take up with the school? It's not a law saying you cannot wear religious symbols, heck I wore a cross up until 6th grade and brought my bible to school every Tuesday for that program I referred to earlier.

What rights are being increased/decreased?
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.Enigmatik
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AgnosticAngel
Jul 21 2007, 05:50 AM
Where are you guys hearing the preaching? I just can't relate! I went to public schools all my life and was never exposed to preaching from either side :/

As far as what a specific school does you realize this is something to take up with the school? It's not a law saying you cannot wear religious symbols, heck I wore a cross up until 6th grade and brought my bible to school every Tuesday for that program I referred to earlier.

What rights are being increased/decreased?

Some schools have made it to where girls and boys of other religions can wear they're stuff, but we can't wear crosses and girls can't wear rosary.
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MrsSim
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.Enigmatik
Jul 20 2007, 10:44 PM
Colin.
Jul 21 2007, 05:19 AM
Just because our country was founded by Christians doesn't mean it was founded on Christianity.

Uh... yes it does.

Do you people realize by increasing your rights, you decrease ours?

I noticed that in some schools girls can wear bangles, but not roseary. How would YOU like it if we went around saying you can't talk about YOUR religion? DO you realize that by preaching about your athiesm, you are doing the same thing you disgust? I recommend you get your act together and think logically about all YOUR problems with yourself before seeing 1 flaw in yourself and seeing 1,000 in another. Just because you think something is right, I could care less about. If you want to say your proud to be an Athiest, good. If you want to say your proud to be your religion, good. But quit being a hypocrite and grow a damn brain!

(Pun not intended.)

(Btw, colin, that whole post wasn't directed at you, it was directed at the Athiests.)

That was a completely unnecessary ad hominem attack that made absolutely no contribution to the topic at hand. I understand that it was not directed at Colin, but the argument was nevertheless an attack. Not only was it a needless personal attack but it was a red herring, an attempt at a diversion. Your paragraph mentions nothing about the inclusion of God in the Pledge of Allegiance and is simply a lamed form of defence.

If you're going to make a contribution of value in a debating, I first suggest knocking off with the personal attacks. They get you no where and only degrade your argument's face value - so please, do not use personal attacks as a way of helping your argument. :)

Also:
.Enigmatik
Jul 20 2007, 10:44 PM
Colin.
Jul 21 2007, 05:19 AM
Just because our country was founded by Christians doesn't mean it was founded on Christianity.

Uh... yes it does.
Wrong; the Founding Fathers were blatant deists, not Christian in any sense. Try again.
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Numark
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I am one of those people who think people that have a problem with this kind of stuff are sad. It doesn't matter at all. So, my opinion is to remove everything, just so all the whiny people who whine just to whine will shut up.

I mean, if you truly have a problem with it, no one forces you to accept any form of religion. You dont have to say the pledge of allegiance ever, and even if you want to, you can omit any part of it if you want.

People need to stop getting offended.
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Colin.
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she was this androgynist
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Well, then, it was directed at me and all Atheists out there. :)

Bangles aren't a thing of religion. Sometimes they can be worn in ceremonial practices, but for the most part, they're a jewelry.

I've never seen, anywhere, that a person cannot wear a rosary. I'm not preaching for that. I don't think that anyone should be banned, or for that matter, forced to do something based on religion. My friend is the most devoted Jewish person I've ever met, yet he has no problem with Christmas trees or crosses.

I've never seen an Atheist asking for all, or any, religious symbols to be banned. A big part of Atheism is letting others do what they want, modern Atheism anyways. We shouldn't be forced to say 'under God', when true Atheists don't believe we are under God or any god. People shouldn't be forced or banned to do something based on religion. Period. (save for things like sacrificing people for their gods, etc things that are just plain wrong.)

No it doesn't. America was based on FREEDOM. First amendment, ever heard of it? Freedom of religion (and other freedoms). That means not having to say we're under God. It was founded on Freedom and forever, do some studying.
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AgnosticAngel
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.Enigmatik
Jul 20 2007, 09:52 PM
Some schools have made it to where girls and boys of other religions can wear they're stuff, but we can't wear crosses and girls can't wear rosary.

Private schools where you have a choice to go (or your parents, in which case you should blame your parents). Public schools can't discriminate against various religions. I will always support a private institution making their own decisions about what is acceptible, but I have never once heard of a public school banning religious symbols on students - only on teachers, as school decoration, etc. Which makes sense because you do not want people to be pressured to believe in something by their role models.
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.Enigmatik
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Colin.
Jul 21 2007, 05:55 AM
Well, then, it was directed at me and all Atheists out there. :)

Bangles aren't a thing of religion. Sometimes they can be worn in ceremonial practices, but for the most part, they're a jewelry.

I've never seen, anywhere, that a person cannot wear a rosary. I'm not preaching for that. I don't think that anyone should be banned, or for that matter, forced to do something based on religion. My friend is the most devoted Jewish person I've ever met, yet he has no problem with Christmas trees or crosses.

I've never seen an Atheist asking for all, or any, religious symbols to be banned. A big part of Atheism is letting others do what they want, modern Atheism anyways. We shouldn't be forced to say 'under God', when true Atheists don't believe we are under God or any god. People shouldn't be forced or banned to do something based on religion. Period. (save for things like sacrificing people for their gods, etc things that are just plain wrong.)

No it doesn't. America was based on FREEDOM. First amendment, ever heard of it? Freedom of religion (and other freedoms). That means not having to say we're under God. It was founded on Freedom and forever, do some studying.

Double-standards my friend.
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Colin.
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she was this androgynist
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AgnosticAngel
Jul 21 2007, 01:57 AM
.Enigmatik
Jul 20 2007, 09:52 PM
Some schools have made it to where girls and boys of other religions can wear they're stuff, but we can't wear crosses and girls can't wear rosary.

Private schools where you have a choice to go (or your parents, in which case you should blame your parents). Public schools can't discriminate against various religions. I will always support a private institution making their own decisions about what is acceptible, but I have never once heard of a public school banning religious symbols on students - only on teachers, as school decoration, etc. Which makes sense because you do not want people to be pressured to believe in something by their role models.

Exactly. Especially if this school is a religious one, but I'm guessing it's not, otherwise your post Enigmatik would be completely foolish.
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