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In God We Trust
Topic Started: Jul 20 2007, 07:05 PM (721 Views)
MrsSim
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Splendiferous™
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.Enigmatik
Jul 20 2007, 10:58 PM
Colin.
Jul 21 2007, 05:55 AM
Well, then, it was directed at me and all Atheists out there.  :)

Bangles aren't a thing of religion. Sometimes they can be worn in ceremonial practices, but for the most part, they're a jewelry.

I've never seen, anywhere, that a person cannot wear a rosary. I'm not preaching for that. I don't think that anyone should be banned, or for that matter, forced to do something based on religion. My friend is the most devoted Jewish person I've ever met, yet he has no problem with Christmas trees or crosses.

I've never seen an Atheist asking for all, or any, religious symbols to be banned. A big part of Atheism is letting others do what they want, modern Atheism anyways. We shouldn't be forced to say 'under God', when true Atheists don't believe we are under God or any god. People shouldn't be forced or banned to do something based on religion. Period. (save for things like sacrificing people for their gods, etc things that are just plain wrong.)

No it doesn't. America was based on FREEDOM. First amendment, ever heard of it? Freedom of religion (and other freedoms). That means not having to say we're under God. It was founded on Freedom and forever, do some studying.

Double-standards my friend.

...could you at least offer a refutation of some sort? Simply making a remark without pointing out the direction of the remark is an unhealthy tactic in debating.
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AgnosticAngel
Caelestis
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Yeah I am 100% confused by your claim of double standards there, really need some clarification.

I would like a source that refers to a public school forbidding students to use religious symbols. Private schools can do as they wish, they can require you to wear religious symbols and attend mass, public schools however are limited in how they treat religion. The only thing I can even imagine is a school that forbids all jewelry, including religious symbols but not ONLY religious symbols. That isn't discrimination against religion it's just a dress code and I wonder in that case if they would allow you to bring a bible with you because that would not disobey the dress code.

On a related note how do you all feel about being sworn into court with a bible to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god?

Like I said I don't really care much about the coins and pledge of allegiance but this is one subject I feel is important. Why? Well because some people might take their differing religious belief as an excuse to disrespect the oath. Personally, despite my lack of religious beliefs, I respect the court system and wouldn't lie under oath but it is one practice that I think could use an update.
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Shroud
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Know Your Enemy
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The problem with your e-mail is that you need to remember you migrated to America yourselves and attempted to force people to slave for you and took their homes. Now a couple of people are immigrating to Americ and want a petty label off some money? **** America.
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Mr.Wolff
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Colin.
Jul 21 2007, 05:19 AM
Just because our country was founded by Christians doesn't mean it was founded on Christianity.

It isn't a question that we were founded on christianity, that is why we moved from mother England. The United States was found with Christain Law, and fundamentals. And it still plays a very big roll in our government today and is helping to fuel the abortion problem, the homosexual issues, and the war.
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.Chris
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AgnosticAngel
Jul 21 2007, 02:30 AM
Yeah I am 100% confused by your claim of double standards there, really need some clarification.

I would like a source that refers to a public school forbidding students to use religious symbols.  Private schools can do as they wish, they can require you to wear religious symbols and attend mass, public schools however are limited in how they treat religion.  The only thing I can even imagine is a school that forbids all jewelry, including religious symbols but not ONLY religious symbols.  That isn't discrimination against religion it's just a dress code and I wonder in that case if they would allow you to bring a bible with you because that would not disobey the dress code.

On a related note how do you all feel about being sworn into court with a bible to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god?

Like I said I don't really care much about the coins and pledge of allegiance but this is one subject I feel is important.  Why?  Well because some people might take their differing religious belief as an excuse to disrespect the oath.  Personally, despite my lack of religious beliefs, I respect the court system and wouldn't lie under oath but it is one practice that I think could use an update.

This isn't quite the same thing, but my sister goes to public school, and they really seem nervous about anything to do with religion. It's such a volatile situation that they'd rather just avoid the entire issue by having really strict rules. She got in trouble for saying Merry Christmas in school to a friend. They told her that they say "Happy Holidays" not Merry Christmas. My mom went berserk, went in to see the principle and pretty much yelled at her for 20 minutes. I have a cross on a chain, and it must have fallen outside my shirt somehow, and they got annoyed at me when I went to go pick her up early for an appointment one time. I find the whole thing ridiculous, I mean, I'm not offended if someone wears their own religious symbols and they shouldn't be offended by mine.

I go to a private school and everyone just accepts that people have different religious beliefs. A few people try to make a nuisance of themselves. One person asked me why I wore the crucifix. They asked if I was "aware that not everyone is Christian". Of course I realize not everyone is. Good for them. People who just feel the need to insert themselves in our lives, where they have no conceivable right to be, just annoy me. By the end of the questioning I felt compelled to ask if she was aware that she was a total jackass. Which, admittedly, was neither the most diplomatic nor Christian solution to the problem, but it did make me feel better.

I'm just glad I go to private school, where if someone questions my right to wear something that is entirely unoffensive and within the dress-code, I can tell them to go find something to do because they obviously have way too much time on their hands. :rolleyes:

It's unfortunate that people are unable to tolerate different beliefs, and feel that in order for everyone to be happy, it has to be a religiously sterile environment. But I think that has just the opposite effect. It might please the few who are offended, but everyone else is having their rights trodden on.

Wheee rant. :P


Edit: Forgot about the court thing. I was under the impression that you no longer had to swear in on the Bible if you were not Christian. I think the system might have worked when it was introduced, and almost everyone was Christian in America, but that was a completely different time. Now, even that oath doesn't mean much, even to people who are officially Christian. I don't think it does much anymore in terms of compelling someone to tell the truth, unless they have certain moral standards, which many people do not have today.
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MrsSim
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Mr.Wolff
Jul 21 2007, 04:48 AM
Colin.
Jul 21 2007, 05:19 AM
Just because our country was founded by Christians doesn't mean it was founded on Christianity.

It isn't a question that we were founded on christianity, that is why we moved from mother England. The United States was found with Christain Law, and fundamentals. And it still plays a very big roll in our government today and is helping to fuel the abortion problem, the homosexual issues, and the war.

Nope, still wasn't founded by Christian law.
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Epsilekt
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MrsSim
Jul 21 2007, 11:37 AM

That article just taught me a lot. I had no idea America wasn't founded on Christianity. I thought religion had a lot to do with it. I guess not.

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Raistlin244
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.Chris
Jul 21 2007, 03:27 PM
AgnosticAngel
Jul 21 2007, 02:30 AM
Yeah I am 100% confused by your claim of double standards there, really need some clarification.

I would like a source that refers to a public school forbidding students to use religious symbols.  Private schools can do as they wish, they can require you to wear religious symbols and attend mass, public schools however are limited in how they treat religion.  The only thing I can even imagine is a school that forbids all jewelry, including religious symbols but not ONLY religious symbols.  That isn't discrimination against religion it's just a dress code and I wonder in that case if they would allow you to bring a bible with you because that would not disobey the dress code.

On a related note how do you all feel about being sworn into court with a bible to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god?

Like I said I don't really care much about the coins and pledge of allegiance but this is one subject I feel is important.  Why?  Well because some people might take their differing religious belief as an excuse to disrespect the oath.  Personally, despite my lack of religious beliefs, I respect the court system and wouldn't lie under oath but it is one practice that I think could use an update.

This isn't quite the same thing, but my sister goes to public school, and they really seem nervous about anything to do with religion. It's such a volatile situation that they'd rather just avoid the entire issue by having really strict rules. She got in trouble for saying Merry Christmas in school to a friend. They told her that they say "Happy Holidays" not Merry Christmas. My mom went berserk, went in to see the principle and pretty much yelled at her for 20 minutes. I have a cross on a chain, and it must have fallen outside my shirt somehow, and they got annoyed at me when I went to go pick her up early for an appointment one time. I find the whole thing ridiculous, I mean, I'm not offended if someone wears their own religious symbols and they shouldn't be offended by mine.

I go to a private school and everyone just accepts that people have different religious beliefs. A few people try to make a nuisance of themselves. One person asked me why I wore the crucifix. They asked if I was "aware that not everyone is Christian". Of course I realize not everyone is. Good for them. People who just feel the need to insert themselves in our lives, where they have no conceivable right to be, just annoy me. By the end of the questioning I felt compelled to ask if she was aware that she was a total jackass. Which, admittedly, was neither the most diplomatic nor Christian solution to the problem, but it did make me feel better.

I'm just glad I go to private school, where if someone questions my right to wear something that is entirely unoffensive and within the dress-code, I can tell them to go find something to do because they obviously have way too much time on their hands. :rolleyes:

It's unfortunate that people are unable to tolerate different beliefs, and feel that in order for everyone to be happy, it has to be a religiously sterile environment. But I think that has just the opposite effect. It might please the few who are offended, but everyone else is having their rights trodden on.

Wheee rant. :P


Edit: Forgot about the court thing. I was under the impression that you no longer had to swear in on the Bible if you were not Christian. I think the system might have worked when it was introduced, and almost everyone was Christian in America, but that was a completely different time. Now, even that oath doesn't mean much, even to people who are officially Christian. I don't think it does much anymore in terms of compelling someone to tell the truth, unless they have certain moral standards, which many people do not have today.

Hm. This past Christmas, before I'd completely left Christianity, I told every customer I served at my work Merry Christmas and none of them got offended. It was nice. :D

And if I was in that situation and someone asked me "Are you aware that not everyone is Christian?" I would A. Tell them that while everyone is not Christian, I am, thus I'm wearing the cross because it connects me more deeply with God or some such thing, and that she can piss off. It's not like you're making them follow your religion by showing that you follow it.

(In relation to the above paragraph, I am not Christian. That was if I was in his shoes)

It should only be a problem if you're forcing your religion on others. I mean, you drive by a church and see a big cross on the outside. Does this mean they're forcing their religion on you? No. It's showing the religion they follow. Same thing as if a person was wearing a cross, or a star of david, or a pentacle, etc.
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