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22 year old guy with 16 year old girl; Am I right to be angry?
Topic Started: Sep 18 2007, 10:55 AM (81,507 Views)
Ryn
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WhiteElephant
Sep 21 2007, 09:08 PM
Ryn
Sep 21 2007, 10:06 PM
Kataklysm
Sep 21 2007, 09:02 PM
I find it weird that this country has such a phobia about the biological purpose of life. Honestly...

So you'd be ok if a 22yr old guy slept with a 12 year old girl?What if she was your daughter? Seriously all I'm saying is that children should be children. You only get to live your childhood once...the rest of your years you're stuck being an adult with loads of responsibilities.

Read my above post, and remember that there is a world outside the US&A, and it's a lot bigger than the world inside its borders.

Actually I wasn't replying to you but ok. I already know that. I stated that in many other posts in this topic. Maybe you should keep your attitude to yourself maybe? :)
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WhiteElephant
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Ryn
Sep 21 2007, 10:14 PM
WhiteElephant
Sep 21 2007, 09:08 PM
Ryn
Sep 21 2007, 10:06 PM
Kataklysm
Sep 21 2007, 09:02 PM
I find it weird that this country has such a phobia about the biological purpose of life. Honestly...

So you'd be ok if a 22yr old guy slept with a 12 year old girl?What if she was your daughter? Seriously all I'm saying is that children should be children. You only get to live your childhood once...the rest of your years you're stuck being an adult with loads of responsibilities.

Read my above post, and remember that there is a world outside the US&A, and it's a lot bigger than the world inside its borders.

Actually I wasn't replying to you but ok. I already know that. I stated that in many other posts in this topic. Maybe you should keep your attitude to yourself maybe? :)

I know you weren't replying to my post, but it did contain an answer to your post. And if you think that that's an attitude, you are mistaken, but I apologise nevertheless. It was a valid point :)
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Ryn
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WhiteElephant
Sep 21 2007, 09:19 PM
Ryn
Sep 21 2007, 10:14 PM
WhiteElephant
Sep 21 2007, 09:08 PM
Ryn
Sep 21 2007, 10:06 PM
Kataklysm
Sep 21 2007, 09:02 PM
I find it weird that this country has such a phobia about the biological purpose of life. Honestly...

So you'd be ok if a 22yr old guy slept with a 12 year old girl?What if she was your daughter? Seriously all I'm saying is that children should be children. You only get to live your childhood once...the rest of your years you're stuck being an adult with loads of responsibilities.

Read my above post, and remember that there is a world outside the US&A, and it's a lot bigger than the world inside its borders.

Actually I wasn't replying to you but ok. I already know that. I stated that in many other posts in this topic. Maybe you should keep your attitude to yourself maybe? :)

I know you weren't replying to my post, but it did contain an answer to your post. And if you think that that's an attitude, you are mistaken, but I apologise nevertheless. It was a valid point :)

Well it's cool then. I'm just slightly irritated and I apologize. (Not because of this topic..something irl.) Eh.
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Melancholic
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Ryn
Sep 20 2007, 06:40 AM
Melancholic
Sep 20 2007, 02:36 AM
Ryn
Sep 19 2007, 11:15 PM
[long personal story undermining objectivity]

You seriously underestimate 16 year old girls. I know dozens that are more mature and capable of making rational decisions than my mom. It's not like your friend's materialistic attitude will somehow go away when she's older -- it probably won't. Blame society for that, not her age. If him having a nice car is a good enough reason for her to spread her legs then why not let her? In my opinion virginity is highly overrated, and there's nothing "sacred" about sex. It feels good, it makes you lose weight, it helps you feel more secure about yourself (basically the best thing that can happen to one at that age since confident = cool = popular = friends) and practise will always remain the best path to becoming a better lover. I'm a bit of a hedonist though. :P

It's not underestimating,it's just common sense. I didn't know diddly squat at 16 hardly because I didn't have a lot of life experience or knowledge. I'm not talking about booksmarts here. I'm talking about knowledge you can only be given to by wise people: elders. It's not about the materialistic attitude so much, it's the fact that she was impressed by that and not the person itself, and by this guy practically being a pedophile, this makes it easier for him to get her trust. Would you want your friend to go out with a pedophile? Would you really want that? If you say yes then I guess it's a lost cause explaining anything else to you. I wasn't going to just let her without giving my opinion in some way. After that I never heard her speak of him again, and she went on dating someone a lot close to her age. Like I said, she was my friend and she ASKED me for MY opinion on the subject. Please we already know sex is a good thing "yadda yadda yadda" no one's talking about that. Virginity has nothing to do with the topic. At all. Secondly if you need to have sex in order to make yourself secure then wow...maybe you should do some soul searching instead of spreading your legs to make you feel better about yourself.

[Note,yourself does not equal you. I'm talking about people in general. Don't get upset with that post.]

P.S...that was kind of rude to just edit my post like that. Oh well I don't care. And if you find a small paragraph like that to be a long story then maybe you shouldn't be on messageboards at all.

So just because you were oblivious to the world at that age means everyone in the current batch of 16 year olds is? I'd say every next generation reaches maturity earlier than the last one. Besides, even if it is somehow "wrong", let them figure that out themselves. Knowledge isn't given to you by elders (who tend to be extremely narrow-minded, or arrogant idiots that fail to understand their kid, or both -- either way they're overrated) but by experience. At some point she might conclude she made a mistake. Everyone is entitled to those, and it's not like voluntarily sleeping with an older guy is not going to destroy their lives.

Being impressed with the guy's car instead of him is the materialistic attitude I referred to. The guy is not a pedophile. She's underage and he's not but it's just... wrong to label him that. Of course we can't have 14 year olds sleeping with 40 year olds but in this scenario we're only talking about only 6 years. If they are attracted to each other (physically, mentally, both?) I really don't see a problem in that any more than I see a problem in a 15 year old playing a videogame rated for ages 16 and up.

She asked for your advice, you gave it, "yadda yadda yadda", that's not the point. This really isn't about your friend, this is about whether or not such an age difference is okay. That's why I edited your initial post in the first place. In my opinion it's perfectly okay for them to have sex because of the aforementioned reasons, including virginity and all that because that can be used as a counterargument from a religious or conservative perspective. I didn't write all that just to flaunt with sexuality so there's no need to go yadda on me, okay?

Finally, it's scientifically proven that engaging in sexual intercourse every now and then subconsciously makes you feel happier and better about yourself, among other things. This has nothing to do with slutty behavior or anything to that effect, it's just the way our bodies work. Friendship cannot fulfill all our needs. Hormones and stuff.

PS:
You're not "explaining" anything to me. That assumes you're right and I'm wrong while all we have is two honest opinions and a 50/50 poll (the last time I checked). You're coming across as if you're somehow lecturing me and that's not the kind of attitude that will get you anything in Brain Juice. Let's keep it friendly and stay open-minded to each other, okay? :)
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Ryn
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No..because history repeats itself. These 16yr olds aren't exactly child prodigies you know. "I'm young and I know a lot.." but in actuality it's "I'm young and I know a little.". I'm sorry that's just how I see it and no one will make me think otherwise. This is not to say they're unintelligent by any means but I will say they are inexperienced. There are very few that will suprise you. Maybe if a lot of them weren't so predictable people wouldn't underestimate them so much and actually take them a lot more seriously.

If they have parents then why not allow someone with a bit more insight to talk to you just for a moment?Just once? All I'm saying is that in the American culture, a lot of this is not really something some of us give a thumbs up to. I know it's different in other places and I acknowledge that.

Just because the girls not two years old in a ballerina outfit doesn't mean he's not a predator of some sort. Seriously. I don't feel bad for labeling someone who has a mental upperhand on a kid. The fact that he can't get someone older shows that clearly he's not man enough to go for an actual woman who actually has a better understanding of what she wants. He was attracted to her because of her vulnerability and naivety, taking advantage of her would probably be a lot easier than playing a mental-chess game with an actual woman. I mean the girl just recently started developing can't he wait 4 more years?


Still the virginity arguement seems very useless because there was no religious argument created. You bought that up out of thin air in my opinon.


Quote:
 
Knowledge isn't given to you by elders (who tend to be extremely narrow-minded, or arrogant idiots that fail to understand their kid, or both -- either way they're overrated) ---(Too much Fresh Prince? Elders can be awesome.)


Correcting myself, knowledge isn't really given to you by elders because you have to also seek knowledge for yourself, but a lot of advice elders give is sometimes in the youth's best interest. They've most likely experienced a lot of the things the young person is going through and teach them a thing or two. It's not a bad thing to listen to someone older than you.

The fact that you compare videogame ratings to this is actually frightening. We're talking about people here. Videogames have no emotions. How would you know if she wouldn't have any damages? What if she really started falling for the guy and he throws her away like a used q-tip?

PS. I am explaining, because I am explaining what *I* mean. I never said I was right on anything. I've just been dishing out opinions and how I feel on the subject. If you feel like you're being lectured then I can't help that. Just like you can't help me being offended by you editing my post. It's not really a big deal. I honestly don't really want anything in Brain Juice, I'm just passing time.
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Ryn
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Black Angel
Sep 19 2007, 11:27 PM
I'm sorry, but if it were my child, then yes, I would be angry, and if my child chose to have sex with him, even though I told her not to because she was underaged, and should wait 2 more years, then I would give her her walking papers.

If she felt that she was woman enough to disobey me, then she is woman enough to support herself. I would have her emancipated, this way she is free to do whatever, and whomever she wants, but by the same token, she will not be in my house doing it, and I won't be brought up on charges of child neglect. If she thinks that she is adult enough to screw a 22 year old, (despite my telling her not to) then she should be adult enough to go out, and find a job and an apartment of her own. The moment she had sex is the same moment she became an adult. If I don't pay rent for, clothe, and feed other adults, then I am not going to do it for her.

That's where I'm coming from with this issue.
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emeraude
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Now you have an incredibly arrogant attitude to the whole thing, i.e. saying that "No sixteen-year-old girl is mentally ready for sex." I am assuming that you are a leading expert in psychology and have spent enough time with every single sixteen-year-old in the world to prove this hypothesis? Everyone is different.

Biologically speaking, because really that is what sex is really about, when you get right down to it, many girls are in fact at their optimum state for child-bearing at that age (sometimes a bit younger, sometimes older, but mid-teenage years is a generally agreed figure). It's when their bodies are best suited to having babies while suffering the least damage to themselves - and let's not forget that the whole point, the entire and ultimate point of sex is to have babies. It really doesn't matter what age the man is.

The only thing that makes it 'wrong' morally for a man of a certain age to have sex with a woman of a younger age is the culture that you have grown up in. Morals are completely culture-dependent and only right and wrong within that culture. So, perhaps for you it is indeed wrong and sickening; but don't forget that that is not a universal truth, that's just a fluke of the conditions you were brought up in. If this 22 year old fellow was brought up differently, he's doing nothing wrong.



Okay, let me make something clear: I am almost positive that we are talking about the culture in the United States. I'm originally from Ireland; of course I know there are cultures outside America (and for the record, it would be wrong there, too). But regardless, we are talking about the US, and in the US, it is culturally and morally wrong. I don't think my attitude is at all arrogant. I don't claim to be a psychologist. But It is almost common sense to recognize that most sixteen-year-old girls aren't ready for sex. Biologically, yes, but mentally? Not at all. And what is this, the 1400s? Sixteen year old girls should not be having children, regardless of whether they're at their "optimum state for child-bearing." I can't speak for other countries, but in the United States, it's just unfair for a young girl to have a baby, both to the mother and the child, even if the girl is capable of doing it physically. But that's another issue entirely.

Frankly, I think your attitude is arrogant. You know very well that I never claimed to be a psychologist, nor did I ever attempt to imply that ALL sixteen-year-old girls are immature and unready for sex or anything else you attacked me for. You speak as though just because a girl can get pregnant, she should. Yes, sex is essentially to create a child, but let's look at it realistically: if people tried to have a baby every single time they had sex, this planet would be completely overrun. So just because one is capable of doing it doesn't mean they should.

In this country, MOST sixteen-year-old girls aren't ready for sex, especially with older people who might expect more than a sixteen-year-old has to offer. I don't speak for all of them, and I don't speak for other cultures, so don't attack me simply because I didn't mention every other region of the world and their take on it.
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WhiteElephant
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emeraude
Sep 22 2007, 01:54 AM
Quote:
 
Now you have an incredibly arrogant attitude to the whole thing, i.e. saying that "No sixteen-year-old girl is mentally ready for sex." I am assuming that you are a leading expert in psychology and have spent enough time with every single sixteen-year-old in the world to prove this hypothesis? Everyone is different.

Biologically speaking, because really that is what sex is really about, when you get right down to it, many girls are in fact at their optimum state for child-bearing at that age (sometimes a bit younger, sometimes older, but mid-teenage years is a generally agreed figure). It's when their bodies are best suited to having babies while suffering the least damage to themselves - and let's not forget that the whole point, the entire and ultimate point of sex is to have babies. It really doesn't matter what age the man is.

The only thing that makes it 'wrong' morally for a man of a certain age to have sex with a woman of a younger age is the culture that you have grown up in. Morals are completely culture-dependent and only right and wrong within that culture. So, perhaps for you it is indeed wrong and sickening; but don't forget that that is not a universal truth, that's just a fluke of the conditions you were brought up in. If this 22 year old fellow was brought up differently, he's doing nothing wrong.



Okay, let me make something clear: I am almost positive that we are talking about the culture in the United States. I'm originally from Ireland; of course I know there are cultures outside America (and for the record, it would be wrong there, too). But regardless, we are talking about the US, and in the US, it is culturally and morally wrong. I don't think my attitude is at all arrogant. I don't claim to be a psychologist. But It is almost common sense to recognize that most sixteen-year-old girls aren't ready for sex. Biologically, yes, but mentally? Not at all. And what is this, the 1400s? Sixteen year old girls should not be having children, regardless of whether they're at their "optimum state for child-bearing." I can't speak for other countries, but in the United States, it's just unfair for a young girl to have a baby, both to the mother and the child, even if the girl is capable of doing it physically. But that's another issue entirely.

Frankly, I think your attitude is arrogant. You know very well that I never claimed to be a psychologist, nor did I ever attempt to imply that ALL sixteen-year-old girls are immature and unready for sex or anything else you attacked me for. You speak as though just because a girl can get pregnant, she should. Yes, sex is essentially to create a child, but let's look at it realistically: if people tried to have a baby every single time they had sex, this planet would be completely overrun. So just because one is capable of doing it doesn't mean they should.

In this country, MOST sixteen-year-old girls aren't ready for sex, especially with older people who might expect more than a sixteen-year-old has to offer. I don't speak for all of them, and I don't speak for other cultures, so don't attack me simply because I didn't mention every other region of the world and their take on it.

If you're confining this debate to the USA, then I shall step out of it. One last point, though, would be on your statement: "of course I know there are cultures outside America (and for the record, it would be wrong there, too)." This is incorrect. There are hundreds, thousands of cultures outside the USA and they are all massively varied. In the majority of them there is no such problem with 'age of consent' and so on, because they have sex when they're biologically ready, because they don't have the so-called 'benefits' of a modern society i.e. stress, depression, broken families and over-working. Whether this is 'right' or 'wrong' depends entirely on how you were brought up.
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spazz4000
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Well I gotta be honest, in a kids point of view heres what I think.

If he was hot to her Im sure she would take the oportunity because teenage years is just spending 6 years of your life being horny until your 18. Im fourteen and Im not sure what I would do if I knew someone (not sure she knew him) and had sex with her, I probaly would if Im 16, Im being serious. As for the guy being twenty two, it makes no difference if there in love (after that they better be) and even if your twenty and like a eighty year old (eww) its your choice even though no one else understands it, which is the case here. Your not looking at this from her view just the laws view.
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Akira.
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I dunno what to say, I mean many of you are kinda... irritating to read. If you had children you'd understand more. I of course do not have children. But I have a younger sister. You wanna know what makes me happy? Hitting my teacher... but that doesn't mean I can do it. I wouldn't care if they were having a non-sexual relationship. But honestly a 16 y/o being independent?? how lame. So untrue. Majority of teenagers are illogical..
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The Sentinel
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Your right to be angry.It looks like that man will become a pedofile later in his life.
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OcelotJay-ZNR
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Citizen V
Sep 23 2007, 11:59 PM
Your right to be angry.It looks like that man will become a pedofile later in his life.

There are traits common among criminal classes that are indications of future criminal behaviour (not inherently accurate though). I hardly think a 22-year-old dating or engaging in sex with someone who is of the legal age of consent (country pending) fits the standard paedophile profile. :ermm: Paedophiles exclusively target pre-pubescent children, as the name indicates - from the Greek paidophilia -pais, meaning child, and philia, meaning love. At the age of 16 not only is the person mid-pubescent, they are sexually active. It would be rather unusual for a future paedophile to begin with someone of that age.
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.Daze
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.Abstract
Sep 19 2007, 07:41 PM
Linkman
Sep 19 2007, 07:31 PM
I don't see why it should make you angry, it has absolutely nothing to do with you after all. If they're both happy, leave them be.

QFT.

Indeed.
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emeraude
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Quote:
 
If you're confining this debate to the USA, then I shall step out of it. One last point, though, would be on your statement: "of course I know there are cultures outside America (and for the record, it would be wrong there, too)." This is incorrect. There are hundreds, thousands of cultures outside the USA and they are all massively varied. In the majority of them there is no such problem with 'age of consent' and so on, because they have sex when they're biologically ready, because they don't have the so-called 'benefits' of a modern society i.e. stress, depression, broken families and over-working. Whether this is 'right' or 'wrong' depends entirely on how you were brought up.


I guarantee that in Ireland, it’s whether you’re both old enough. You have sex when you're married, and you marry when you're BOTH eighteen or older (at the same time), unless you want to be the town scandal or to cause unnecessary pain to your family. As far as the "majority" of cultures outside the U.S. go, I think you're very, very wrong. Yes, teenagers may be having sex, but not with older men—at least not most of the time. Sex is one thing, doing it with a man many years your senior is entirely different. Perhaps in some cultures they still condone such relationships, but absolutely, positively NOT the majority. Most cultures don’t even support sex before marriage, much less sex out of wedlock with a man older than the girl..

And the reality is that in a way, I'm playing devil's advocate. I'm eighteen, and I'm certainly not a virgin. However, I still believe that there are an extremely small amount of sixteen-year-old girls ready to have sex with an older man, regardless of culture.

For the record, too, EVERY culture has broken families, stress, and depression. The United States is not at all the worst of it. So if people are having sex without regard to any "age of consent" laws (if their culture/society/government has them, and most do) it's not for lack of hardship; it's just what each individual is thinking/feeling about their hasving sex.
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WhiteElephant
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emeraude
Sep 24 2007, 06:36 PM
Quote:
 
If you're confining this debate to the USA, then I shall step out of it. One last point, though, would be on your statement: "of course I know there are cultures outside America (and for the record, it would be wrong there, too)." This is incorrect. There are hundreds, thousands of cultures outside the USA and they are all massively varied. In the majority of them there is no such problem with 'age of consent' and so on, because they have sex when they're biologically ready, because they don't have the so-called 'benefits' of a modern society i.e. stress, depression, broken families and over-working. Whether this is 'right' or 'wrong' depends entirely on how you were brought up.


I guarantee that in Ireland, it’s whether you’re both old enough. You have sex when you're married, and you marry when you're BOTH eighteen or older (at the same time), unless you want to be the town scandal or to cause unnecessary pain to your family. As far as the "majority" of cultures outside the U.S. go, I think you're very, very wrong. Yes, teenagers may be having sex, but not with older men—at least not most of the time. Sex is one thing, doing it with a man many years your senior is entirely different. Perhaps in some cultures they still condone such relationships, but absolutely, positively NOT the majority. Most cultures don’t even support sex before marriage, much less sex out of wedlock with a man older than the girl..

And the reality is that in a way, I'm playing devil's advocate. I'm eighteen, and I'm certainly not a virgin. However, I still believe that there are an extremely small amount of sixteen-year-old girls ready to have sex with an older man, regardless of culture.

For the record, too, EVERY culture has broken families, stress, and depression. The United States is not at all the worst of it. So if people are having sex without regard to any "age of consent" laws (if their culture/society/government has them, and most do) it's not for lack of hardship; it's just what each individual is thinking/feeling about their hasving sex.

The phrase there is a world outside the USA should be extended to there is a world outside modern 'western' society. Both Ireland and the USA are part of the same modern western culture. Certainly historically they are different and there are many so many superficial differences now that it appears that there are big differences, but nevertheless, especially regarding this sort of issue, they're pretty much the same. I'm talking about different cultures: none are perfect, some are worse than ours, some better. But they have different attitudes to this issue which are all valid within their culture. There are a lot more of them. None may have nearly as many people living in them as the modern west, the 'developed world,' but they're still there. Go back a hundred years or so and there's even more. I'd also like to see your authoritative list of all the cultures in the world and their views on this issue too that allow you to be 'absolutely, positively' sure =]

And that is the big point which is being missed. No-one on this forum can judge whether or not what the man is doing is right or wrong, because no-one here knows enough about the situation. If the bloke actually loves the girl, and she loves him, there's nothing wrong with what's going on. If the bloke has not been brought up to believe that you can only have sex with people very close to your own age, then he's not doing anything wrong. You can't take your own 'standards' and 'morals' and apply them to someone else who you don't know and has had completely different life experiences than you.

Real life isn't like school; you're not only allowed to talk to people in the same 'year group' as you. If they were, say, 28 and 22, then this would be a non-issue. It's not the age gap that's the problem, it's the fact that everyone loves a bit of righteous indignation every now and then, and to judge people and situations that they don't know anything about.
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