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| Human Rights | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 4 2007, 02:57 PM (636 Views) | |
| Snakker | Nov 4 2007, 02:57 PM Post #1 |
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Human Rights are out of control. The government is far too soft these days. I agree that everybody deserves a fair trial, but physical actions must be used sometimes. For instance last night there was a fight between two drunk families outside my house. The police were called. They should have gone in there with sticks and bats and hit them hard. Instead they were scared of the drunks. If you kill someone on purpose, why do you deserve to live? Everyone deserves a fair trial, but if you killed someone, you should be killed too. Manslaughter is a different case. Your views on human rights? |
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| Lugiatm | Nov 4 2007, 03:04 PM Post #2 |
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Human rights in general is a good thing, but the Human Rights Act itself is a joke. |
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| .esoteric | Nov 4 2007, 05:51 PM Post #3 |
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Laffy Taffy Rots Your Teeth
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Well, as for your comment on drunken families brawling, those were just bad cops. That doesn't mean that they should have gone in and bludgened them to death unless it was absolutely necessary, they should have gone and broken up the fight, then arrested them. And how exactly does killing someone become right when they've already killed someone? Doesn't that make you a killer? It serves no purpose, it's completely pointless. "You killed someone, so to show you and everyone else it's wrong, I'm gonna kill you. BAM, problem solved." Society simply doesn't work like that. |
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| Jabroni | Nov 4 2007, 06:40 PM Post #4 |
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the thing is if the cops were scared they should have called for back up.... they didnt do that = bad cops.... on the matter of being killed if your a killer... that is completly stupid.... you know how many people have been wrongly sentances to death? |
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| Trav-man | Nov 4 2007, 07:19 PM Post #5 |
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That's Travtastic!
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Police don't go in and just beat people. They are law enforcement, but they don't represent the judicial system and everyone has a right to a fair trial. As far as our rights, my rule is that our freedom can only extend until the point where it infringes on the freedom of another. |
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| Snakker | Nov 5 2007, 12:31 PM Post #6 |
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I said everyone deserves a fair trial. If murderers were executed, surely the number of murders would rapidly shrink? |
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| The Sentinel | Nov 5 2007, 12:51 PM Post #7 |
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Everyone deserves rights,but few get them..and even if they do by law.When it comes down to people themselfs,they will treat others less..if they deem it so. |
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| .esoteric | Nov 5 2007, 02:10 PM Post #8 |
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Laffy Taffy Rots Your Teeth
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No... that's just not true. There is a capitol punishment in many states yet it doesn't seem to work. And even if it did it's still inhumane. |
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| Steve | Nov 5 2007, 02:19 PM Post #9 |
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patriot
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So you think it's right that honest, law abiding citizens pay to keep these killers alive and well? Yes, news flash people, that's where some of your tax money goes. Which I think is completely stupid, we shouldn't have to give the govement money to pay them to keep killers, peodophiles and rapists alive. You'd get a damn site less people willing to kill if they knew that if they where found guilty they'd get the same thing done onto them. |
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| Journet | Nov 5 2007, 02:33 PM Post #10 |
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This is a place you'll never know...
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You took the words straight out from under my breath.
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| OcelotJay-ZNR | Nov 6 2007, 12:25 AM Post #11 |
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I am kitteh, hear me purr. =(^_^)=
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A large chunk of history appears to be forgotten whenever someone makes that statement. Execution was at one time the most prevalent method for dealing with criminals right across the world. Certainly it struck fear into people's hearts but not nearly enough to prevent crime. It can deal with criminals but it is an ineffective preventative measure - or shall we ignore history and just assume it is for the sake of sating our blood thirst? If it were so effective, why is it that crime remained as strong as it always was through those dark and bloody years? It was simply driven further underground which I suspect is probably the best that would happen were the death penalty brought back across the West. It might certainly drive down the number of bold criminals but it won't impact the actual numbers. Murderers are without fear, their intent is to kill; do you believe for one second that they are remotely concerned about the law? Do you think that falls into their judgement when they decide to take another person's life? Obviously not.
See above. Execution is not an effective preventative measure nor is there anything to suggest that it's a reliable form of reducing the number of murderers. Blegh, why is it every time I type up a post it submits it halfway through. <_< Stupid thing. |
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| beijf | Nov 6 2007, 02:05 PM Post #12 |
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yes I think it is good. |
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| Trav-man | Nov 6 2007, 03:28 PM Post #13 |
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That's Travtastic!
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It's an interesting thought, and I think I agree with you, but I'd like to ask, if heavy consequences don't deter crime, what preventive actions do you believe would be most effective? |
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| .Dante | Nov 6 2007, 04:48 PM Post #14 |
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I personally would rather die than spend my life in prison, however I believe there should be a choice between which for a murderer. Despite what they have done they still have some rights. And what you are not remembering is that the person might not have done it! There was a case in which college kids working on a project where they were doing a case of a man that was sentenced to die, after the real case of course. Yet they found he was innocent. The professor was shocked by this, and he told the state. They did a formal re-trial and he really was innocent. They then began trying the other cases and there were quite a few that were innocent of the crime. Now imagine if the innocent person really was executed. He could have been proven innocent after the fact, but that would not have meant anything. And it only takes that one person to make the whole system corrupt. |
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| OcelotJay-ZNR | Nov 6 2007, 10:11 PM Post #15 |
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I am kitteh, hear me purr. =(^_^)=
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I can only really speak about the West, Britain in particular, but if what we're constantly being told is true then apparently poverty and poor education are key among the reasons for crime, so dealing with those would be a start. Wealthy families are least likely to produce thieves and violent thugs, happy children seem less inclined to stir up trouble and push anti-social behaviour over the edge; stability is key to happiness and happy people are generally less inclined to commit offences. Not always of course but there does seem to be an undeniable link between poverty and crime, which is often done out of necessity or boredom. I'll be honest, I'm not entirely sure how we go about dealing with our "youth" culture but I wouldn't be surprised if better education and more funding led to a decrease in gang warfare, violence and related crime among young people. Society itself needs to change as well. The government and the police favour scaremongering over giving the facts and dealing with the real problems, they use it as a tool to make people toe the line (fear is, after all, a useful weapon). Even with the likes of David hug-a-hoodie Cameron around, we still have a climate that perpetuates the myth that teenagers are evil brigands and miscreants that will rob you blind and leave you for dead. We treat our youth terribly and invite the repercussions while protesting that something has to be done. With the NHS on the decline and many parts of Britain still struggling to fund their education and health services, we're a breeding ground for human filth. I do think we have to challenge the root of it. It might not change things instantly but we can improve the future generations and hopefully find a way to lure people away from crime by offering better circumstances and more support. It would also help if our judicial system wasn't so spectacularly awful. Our prisons are apparently bursting at the seams, which doesn't surprise me. We shouldn't be using prison to punish minor criminals (I tend to find anything less than five years in prison is a waste of time and money), we should be locking up those who pose a threat to us and using a proper rehabilitation system to deal with those who have slipped into a life of crime but can be "saved". Justice is far from what we dispense and we treat all criminals the same and it's our failing that we don't recognise the differences that exist. And then you have murder. Murder isn't something you can prevent, that I believe wholeheartedly. Murder is either premeditated in which case the murderer is a threat and a danger to society, or it's spur of the moment, done out of anger, which is difficult to prevent. There are often links between mental health issues and the latter of the two as often a person who is mentally fragile and unstable is more likely to act impulsively which can lead to an explosive end, particularly if they have a history of violence or have struggled with anger issues (sometimes though it may not have manifested itself enough to be noticed by anyone but the individual). I have always advocated for a greater understanding and acceptance of mental health and the issues surrounding it. Education on this is poor in Britain and has only somewhat recently become less of a taboo. Even so, far too many are embarrassed by it to get the help they need or even to acknowledge it and that is both unhealthy and dangerous. I speak from personal experience as my own mental health issues are high maintenance and require a lot of energy to keep under control, and they have to be kept under check. As placid a person as I am, I have a darker side that most people haven't seen (or would ever believe existed) but would have manifested itself if it went untreated. Mental health is a serious issue in its own right and crime related to it is just one of many reasons better education and an open dialogue is necessary. But that aside, I'm not saying most murderers necessarily have mental health problems (though I know plenty would argue that :P) so that doesn't deal with the rest. As I said earlier, I don't think murder can be prevented in that it doesn't generally occur for the same reasons as other crime does. The best we can do is hope the police can stop as many murders from happening as possible by acting on any intelligence they receive. There's also crime linked to drugs and prostitution and various illicit acts. I still think legislation is the best route. The black market, "drug lords" and dangerous pimps rely on the illegal nature of these things to do their business. By doing so they can keep prostitutes and drug users in check because addiction is powerful and easily abused by those who feed it, and prostitution can be made difficult to get out of. If the government were to dismiss the shroud of revulsion it's spread about these two things, stop spreading old myths and decriminalise them they might get somewhere. They'd have to go a step further though and look at methods they could use to actually manage them in order to stamp out the true vermin. As much as the users might be the ones most likely to commit crimes to pay for their addictions or whatever, they're driven by an uncontrollable urge fed by these scum. They're the root of the matter and arresting a few doesn't shatter the strong underground society that exists, you have to cut them off at the source. Not an easy task but I think people are more likely to look for drugs in a safe environment than a drug den if the option is there, plus it might make it easier to keep addictions in check by offering counselling and health services along with it. I do believe in punishment for committing offences but I think we wrongly lump criminals into the same box. And as much as someone should pay for doing wrong, I do think I'd rather see someone rehabilitated if possible than locked up in prison and released only to re-offend. That's what I find most absurd. |
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