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Human Rights
Topic Started: Nov 4 2007, 02:57 PM (637 Views)
Postulate
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You're the point
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Quote:
 
Human Rights are out of control. The government is far too soft these days. I agree that everybody deserves a fair trial, but physical actions must be used sometimes.


Too far? It's legal to kill developing fetuses. Someone stop the onslaught of human rights, before it becomes illegal to destroy unborn children! It's too slippery of a slope to brave!
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Sobriquet.
robbers and cowards
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As mentioned before, human rights is a good thing. But the Human Rights act is a joke, as far as I can see it only helps criminals.
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IbanXCorp
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Postulate
Nov 8 2007, 06:32 AM
Quote:
 
Human Rights are out of control. The government is far too soft these days. I agree that everybody deserves a fair trial, but physical actions must be used sometimes.


Too far? It's legal to kill developing fetuses. Someone stop the onslaught of human rights, before it becomes illegal to destroy unborn children! It's too slippery of a slope to brave!

*facepalm* Another discussion. Unrelated. Completely unwanted comment.

Better choice: "Too far? There is barely any punishment for horribly cruel treatment of Animals. (E.G. at the max, 10 years for torture and murder of 10 dogs)"

I don't think people should have any rights. Go totalitarianism. Woohoo. People are too stupid to act independently.
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Bry
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caяp diєм
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OcelotJay
Nov 7 2007, 02:11 AM
Trav-man
Nov 6 2007, 08:28 PM
It's an interesting thought, and I think I agree with you, but I'd like to ask, if heavy consequences don't deter crime, what preventive actions do you believe would be most effective?

I can only really speak about the West, Britain in particular, but if what we're constantly being told is true then apparently poverty and poor education are key among the reasons for crime, so dealing with those would be a start. Wealthy families are least likely to produce thieves and violent thugs, happy children seem less inclined to stir up trouble and push anti-social behaviour over the edge; stability is key to happiness and happy people are generally less inclined to commit offences. Not always of course but there does seem to be an undeniable link between poverty and crime, which is often done out of necessity or boredom.

I'll be honest, I'm not entirely sure how we go about dealing with our "youth" culture but I wouldn't be surprised if better education and more funding led to a decrease in gang warfare, violence and related crime among young people. Society itself needs to change as well. The government and the police favour scaremongering over giving the facts and dealing with the real problems, they use it as a tool to make people toe the line (fear is, after all, a useful weapon). Even with the likes of David hug-a-hoodie Cameron around, we still have a climate that perpetuates the myth that teenagers are evil brigands and miscreants that will rob you blind and leave you for dead. We treat our youth terribly and invite the repercussions while protesting that something has to be done. With the NHS on the decline and many parts of Britain still struggling to fund their education and health services, we're a breeding ground for human filth. I do think we have to challenge the root of it. It might not change things instantly but we can improve the future generations and hopefully find a way to lure people away from crime by offering better circumstances and more support. It would also help if our judicial system wasn't so spectacularly awful. Our prisons are apparently bursting at the seams, which doesn't surprise me. We shouldn't be using prison to punish minor criminals (I tend to find anything less than five years in prison is a waste of time and money), we should be locking up those who pose a threat to us and using a proper rehabilitation system to deal with those who have slipped into a life of crime but can be "saved". Justice is far from what we dispense and we treat all criminals the same and it's our failing that we don't recognise the differences that exist.

And then you have murder. Murder isn't something you can prevent, that I believe wholeheartedly. Murder is either premeditated in which case the murderer is a threat and a danger to society, or it's spur of the moment, done out of anger, which is difficult to prevent. There are often links between mental health issues and the latter of the two as often a person who is mentally fragile and unstable is more likely to act impulsively which can lead to an explosive end, particularly if they have a history of violence or have struggled with anger issues (sometimes though it may not have manifested itself enough to be noticed by anyone but the individual). I have always advocated for a greater understanding and acceptance of mental health and the issues surrounding it. Education on this is poor in Britain and has only somewhat recently become less of a taboo. Even so, far too many are embarrassed by it to get the help they need or even to acknowledge it and that is both unhealthy and dangerous. I speak from personal experience as my own mental health issues are high maintenance and require a lot of energy to keep under control, and they have to be kept under check. As placid a person as I am, I have a darker side that most people haven't seen (or would ever believe existed) but would have manifested itself if it went untreated. Mental health is a serious issue in its own right and crime related to it is just one of many reasons better education and an open dialogue is necessary.
But that aside, I'm not saying most murderers necessarily have mental health problems (though I know plenty would argue that :P) so that doesn't deal with the rest. As I said earlier, I don't think murder can be prevented in that it doesn't generally occur for the same reasons as other crime does. The best we can do is hope the police can stop as many murders from happening as possible by acting on any intelligence they receive.

There's also crime linked to drugs and prostitution and various illicit acts. I still think legislation is the best route. The black market, "drug lords" and dangerous pimps rely on the illegal nature of these things to do their business. By doing so they can keep prostitutes and drug users in check because addiction is powerful and easily abused by those who feed it, and prostitution can be made difficult to get out of. If the government were to dismiss the shroud of revulsion it's spread about these two things, stop spreading old myths and decriminalise them they might get somewhere.
They'd have to go a step further though and look at methods they could use to actually manage them in order to stamp out the true vermin. As much as the users might be the ones most likely to commit crimes to pay for their addictions or whatever, they're driven by an uncontrollable urge fed by these scum. They're the root of the matter and arresting a few doesn't shatter the strong underground society that exists, you have to cut them off at the source. Not an easy task but I think people are more likely to look for drugs in a safe environment than a drug den if the option is there, plus it might make it easier to keep addictions in check by offering counselling and health services along with it.

I do believe in punishment for committing offences but I think we wrongly lump criminals into the same box. And as much as someone should pay for doing wrong, I do think I'd rather see someone rehabilitated if possible than locked up in prison and released only to re-offend. That's what I find most absurd.

I really need to hire you to write my papers for school xD
I agree BTW, but I also think that capital punishment is something that can be used in certain situations. If somebody has been proven to be a threat to society, or more importantly, openly admit to committing murder, I think the death penalty is viable. I don't think it is fair for society to be financing the life of somebody who has stolen the life of another person.
I doubt the family of a murder victim would enjoy knowing that any portion of the taxes they pay are feeding the killer who took that person from them :/

But ultimately, the matter of capital punishment is completely situational; and therefore often misunderstood and impossible to debate XD
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Postulate
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IbanXCorp
Nov 8 2007, 09:16 AM
Postulate
Nov 8 2007, 06:32 AM
Quote:
 
Human Rights are out of control. The government is far too soft these days. I agree that everybody deserves a fair trial, but physical actions must be used sometimes.


Too far? It's legal to kill developing fetuses. Someone stop the onslaught of human rights, before it becomes illegal to destroy unborn children! It's too slippery of a slope to brave!

*facepalm* Another discussion. Unrelated. Completely unwanted comment.

Better choice: "Too far? There is barely any punishment for horribly cruel treatment of Animals. (E.G. at the max, 10 years for torture and murder of 10 dogs)"

I don't think people should have any rights. Go totalitarianism. Woohoo. People are too stupid to act independently.

I'm sorry you feel that way. =)

But as far as I know, the right to life is unalienable. Therefore it has everything to do with human rights. You cannot expect rights in general to be going "too far" when our unalienable ones are not protected.

Quote:
 
Too far? There is barely any punishment for horribly cruel treatment of Animals. (E.G. at the max, 10 years for torture and murder of 10 dogs


*facepalm* This is not an animal rights topic. Totally unrelated and unwanted comment.
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OcelotJay-ZNR
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Quote:
 
I really need to hire you to write my papers for school xD

If you have the cash, I'm willing. :P
Quote:
 
I agree BTW, but I also think that capital punishment is something that can be used in certain situations. If somebody has been proven to be a threat to society, or more importantly, openly admit to committing murder, I think the death penalty is viable. I don't think it is fair for society to be financing the life of somebody who has stolen the life of another person.

I can see your point. I do find capital punishment hard to swallow but I can't deny I understand the logic because it does raise an important question: what do we do with someone who has been deemed too dangerous to live in society? Currently our options are either to imprison them for life, which does indeed cost us, or to execute them, which also costs money but is one-time. I guess because I disagree with taking life I find it difficult to justify it, and I'm not a believer in "an eye for an eye" simply because it can spiral out of control and spill into other parts of life. I'm still trying to hunt down some proper statistics to get a better picture. I've only been able to find "violent crime" statistics, nothing that indicates just how many are murderers and rapists sentenced to life or long-term imprisonment.
Of course I think prisons are an area where human rights has gone too far; I'm all for humane prisons but some prisons afford prisoners certain luxuries to pass the time which is an absurd notion. This is why I think prisons need to be used more efficiently and not just as a place to harbour anyone who has committed a crime.
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I doubt the family of a murder victim would enjoy knowing that any portion of the taxes they pay are feeding the killer who took that person from them :/

Mmm, depends. As much as I can understand a family feeling that way I don't think the justice system can afford to kowtow to heated emotions; that's not what justice is about (or not what I think at least, I suppose opinions vary). It shouldn't set out to satisfy a lust for revenge but to dispense a fitting punishment for the crime committed in accordance with existing laws without overstepping the boundary and cursing society into being no better than its criminals. I suppose one can argue execution is fitting for murder and I do find it difficult to refute that particular idea but as I mentioned, I'm not in favour of an eye for an eye.
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