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The Golden Compass
Topic Started: Dec 3 2007, 12:48 AM (935 Views)
S'ree
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SyringeX
Dec 3 2007, 05:22 PM
The problem they see is not the fact that they may be swayed by it, but that it's a children's film, and they believe children will be swayed to atheism by it.

Yes, children are very open to influence, but their parents and their church are equally able to influence them back. If their parents really want to force them into their family religion, then a few church visits should be able to fix one viewing of the movie. Either way, the children probably won't see that supposed subliminal message of atheism. The "message" would actually take an adult brain to absorb and observe.
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Benjamin
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SyringeX
Dec 3 2007, 06:22 PM
S'ree
Dec 3 2007, 04:20 PM
Now, as an atheist, I'm solidly nonaffected by this whole affair. Yes, Pullman said that his books were about "undermining the Christian belief and killing God," but that doesn't mean that he was trying to get others to be atheist. I will quote from the Newsweek review:

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Pullman does, in fact, describe himself as an atheist, but his vocation is storytelling, and his only agenda, he said during an interview with NEWSWEEK, is "to get you to turn the page." "To regard it as this Donohue man has said—that I'm a militant atheist, and my intention is to convert people—how the hell does he know that? Why don't we trust readers? Why don't we trust filmgoers?" Pullman sighed. "Oh, it causes me to shake my head with sorrow that such nitwits could be loose in the world."

(The article)


See, if people are fluid enough to change their religion just from reading a book, watching a movie, or, hell, even going on the internet, than that means that they were more than likely having doubts about it in the first place. Even a devout Christian/Catholic/whatever can go and watch the movie. It's just a way to kill a couple hours, enjoy yourself, and see how horribly Hollywood mangled the book.

The problem they see is not the fact that they may be swayed by it, but that it's a children's film, and they believe children will be swayed to atheism by it.

That's not the only reason, though. What if your own mother was being insulted in a movie. You'd be offended, and you'd try to stop people from seeing that movie, wouldn't you? You'd also refuse to go see that movie. The same goes for God. They're offended by the fact that the one and only, perfect and righteous God is being thrashed by the media. Christianity is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, and through Christ, a personal relationship with God.
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Ender.
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Oh, you mean The Broken Compass? =P

I have no intention of ever reading the books or watching the movie, unless it's to argue against it. Sorry but when I hear that his books are "about killing God", I'm obviously not going to want to watch the movie or read the books, considering my religious beliefs.

In other words, I'm not "afraid" of losing my faith and becoming an atheist, but I'm obviously not going to watch something like that. Just like a blind person is obviously not going to want to "watch" a movie that makes fun of blind people (not that such a thing necessarily exists, I'm just trying to come up with an example).

Though I do think that a Catholic family is not going to want their kids watching something like that, seeing as it (apparently) twists everything they're trying to teach them.
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S'ree
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Benjamin
Dec 3 2007, 05:27 PM
That's not the only reason, though. What if your own mother was being insulted in a movie. You'd be offended, and you'd try to stop people from seeing that movie, wouldn't you? You'd also refuse to go see that movie. The same goes for God. They're offended by the fact that the one and only, perfect and righteous God is being thrashed by the media. Christianity is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, and through Christ, a personal relationship with God.

But the movie isn't outright insulting Christianity or Catholicism. You have to remember that the world that it's set in is imaginary, as is the Magisterium. Neither the book or the movie explicitly says "this is what the church is like. Hate it." Yes, that might be slipped into the thoughts and actions of the characters, but they're not hating our churches. They're hating their churches.
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SyringeX
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Benjamin
Dec 3 2007, 04:27 PM
SyringeX
Dec 3 2007, 06:22 PM
S'ree
Dec 3 2007, 04:20 PM
Now, as an atheist, I'm solidly nonaffected by this whole affair. Yes, Pullman said that his books were about "undermining the Christian belief and killing God," but that doesn't mean that he was trying to get others to be atheist. I will quote from the Newsweek review:

Quote:
 
Pullman does, in fact, describe himself as an atheist, but his vocation is storytelling, and his only agenda, he said during an interview with NEWSWEEK, is "to get you to turn the page." "To regard it as this Donohue man has said—that I'm a militant atheist, and my intention is to convert people—how the hell does he know that? Why don't we trust readers? Why don't we trust filmgoers?" Pullman sighed. "Oh, it causes me to shake my head with sorrow that such nitwits could be loose in the world."

(The article)


See, if people are fluid enough to change their religion just from reading a book, watching a movie, or, hell, even going on the internet, than that means that they were more than likely having doubts about it in the first place. Even a devout Christian/Catholic/whatever can go and watch the movie. It's just a way to kill a couple hours, enjoy yourself, and see how horribly Hollywood mangled the book.

The problem they see is not the fact that they may be swayed by it, but that it's a children's film, and they believe children will be swayed to atheism by it.

That's not the only reason, though. What if your own mother was being insulted in a movie. You'd be offended, and you'd try to stop people from seeing that movie, wouldn't you? You'd also refuse to go see that movie. The same goes for God. They're offended by the fact that the one and only, perfect and righteous God is being thrashed by the media. Christianity is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, and through Christ, a personal relationship with God.

Ha, I brought up that same point a few posts up :P

Quote:
 
Yes, children are very open to influence, but their parents and their church are equally able to influence them back. If their parents really want to force them into their family religion, then a few church visits should be able to fix one viewing of the movie. Either way, the children probably won't see that supposed subliminal message of atheism. The "message" would actually take an adult brain to absorb and observe.

I agree that I don't believe the movie will easily sway the children, especially since its immensely watered down of its religious references as compared to the book. I'm just trying to offer the different points of view, parents, whether atheist or religious are obviously going to prefer that their children agree with them, so some christians see this this way as many atheists see christians trying to force their religion on their kids.
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Benjamin
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S'ree
Dec 3 2007, 06:31 PM
Benjamin
Dec 3 2007, 05:27 PM
That's not the only reason, though. What if your own mother was being insulted in a movie. You'd be offended, and you'd try to stop people from seeing that movie, wouldn't you? You'd also refuse to go see that movie. The same goes for God. They're offended by the fact that the one and only, perfect and righteous God is being thrashed by the media. Christianity is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, and through Christ, a personal relationship with God.

But the movie isn't outright insulting Christianity or Catholicism. You have to remember that the world that it's set in is imaginary, as is the Magisterium. Neither the book or the movie explicitly says "this is what the church is like. Hate it." Yes, that might be slipped into the thoughts and actions of the characters, but they're not hating our churches. They're hating their churches.

From what I've found, their churches are a representation of our churches. Now, to be completely honest, I have a few things against the Catholic church, but never anything against God. The book can attack the corrupt churches, but it's really crossing the line when it attacks God.
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S'ree
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SyringeX
Dec 3 2007, 05:31 PM
I agree that I don't believe the movie will easily sway the children, especially since its immensely watered down of its religious references as compared to the book. I'm just trying to offer the different points of view, parents, whether atheist or religious are obviously going to prefer that their children agree with them, so some christians see this this way as many atheists see christians trying to force their religion on their kids.

I was brought up Protestant. My parents weren't strict about religion. We went to church every Sunday, said our prayers at night, blah blah blah. And then my parents divorced, and we stopped going to church. I really kind of grew away from the Christian faith. I'm not trying to force atheism or anything on anyone, I'm just explaining my religious past.

In my opinion, nobody should force their religion on anyone. Children should be allowed to see different points of view and choose for themselves. If a child switches from Catholicism to Atheism, it's just as easy for them to switch back.
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Ender.
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S'ree
Dec 3 2007, 10:35 PM
SyringeX
Dec 3 2007, 05:31 PM
I agree that I don't believe the movie will easily sway the children, especially since its immensely watered down of its religious references as compared to the book. I'm just trying to offer the different points of view, parents, whether atheist or religious are obviously going to prefer that their children agree with them, so some christians see this this way as many atheists see christians trying to force their religion on their kids.

I was brought up Protestant. My parents weren't strict about religion. We went to church every Sunday, said our prayers at night, blah blah blah. And then my parents divorced, and we stopped going to church. I really kind of grew away from the Christian faith. I'm not trying to force atheism or anything on anyone, I'm just explaining my religious past.

In my opinion, nobody should force their religion on anyone. Children should be allowed to see different points of view and choose for themselves. If a child switches from Catholicism to Atheism, it's just as easy for them to switch back.

Young children are very impressionable and are most likely going to take things at face value. This is another thing where it's really up to the parents and I think that if they are Christian or Catholic or something of the sort, they should be careful about letting their kids watch things like that. Obviously if two Catholics marry, they're going to teach their kids to be Catholic and even though the kids "should be able to choose for themselves", kids often need the guidance of parents on certain things and if we're talking young enough, really aren't going to know enough to choose properly. Thus I say that the parents should at least be aware of what their kids are watching, so that they can guide them properly if any issues about it come up.
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S'ree
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Domingo
Dec 3 2007, 05:44 PM
Young children are very impressionable and are most likely going to take things at face value. This is another thing where it's really up to the parents and I think that if they are Christian or Catholic or something of the sort, they should be careful about letting their kids watch things like that. Obviously if two Catholics marry, they're going to teach their kids to be Catholic and even though the kids "should be able to choose for themselves", kids often need the guidance of parents on certain things and if we're talking young enough, really aren't going to know enough to choose properly. Thus I say that the parents should at least be aware of what their kids are watching, so that they can guide them properly if any issues about it come up.

If a child is that young, then of course the parents are going to go see the movie with them. Nobody's going to drop a three-year-old off and say "I'll see you in a couple of hours!"

But honestly, none of us can really pass judgment on this movie until we've seen it. All we've been arguing on so far is hearsay, and it may not even be correct.
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Feignt
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Benjamin
Dec 3 2007, 06:13 PM
Feignt
Dec 3 2007, 06:00 PM
Of course you can't, that's the point.  But if people are really having their faith upset by a movie, maybe they didn't have that much faith in the first place.  If they can't handle this then maybe they should rethink their position.

I'd like to hear Benjamin's thoughts here though, or at least some theist argument.

I hate how it's alright for people to praise someone but not to attack them.

Ha. Well, I don't know much about the book, and I'll have to do some research, but from what I've heard, the author doesn't like Christians and a lot of classic Christian authors like C.S. Lewis and Tolkien.

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I hate how it's alright for people to praise someone but not to attack them.

I'm guessing you're refering to God. There's absolutely no reason to attack God. He created you, loves you, and sent his Son to die on the cross for you. Why attack him for that?

I never said that it was alright to attack God, I said that it is wrong for people to attack people for attacking God. :hmm: I think.

But in any case, you are once again forgetting that atheists don't view God as being real, or someone that only does good.

I don't believe he loves me, I don't believe that he sent his son to die on the cross for me. I don't believe in him. That is you projecting your beliefs onto me and everyone else.

I agree that there is basically no reason to attack God per se, but to attack religion sure. I disagree with everything organized religion stands for.

Being atheist, I see nothing wrong in the books attacking God.

If someone attacked my family member, sure, I'd be mad, but I think I could be reasonable enough to admit (assuming the person had a reason for attacking) that there could be a perfectly acceptable reason for the attack.

Why is it wrong to attack God, to attack someone's beliefs? Don't Christians do that to other religions, to witches and people they deem unworthy? Or was I mistaken when I saw the church denounce Harry Potter?
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Benjamin
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Feignt
Dec 3 2007, 07:05 PM
I never said that it was alright to attack God, I said that it is wrong for people to attack people for attacking God. :hmm: I think.

But in any case, you are once again forgetting that atheists don't view God as being real, or someone that only does good.

I don't believe he loves me, I don't believe that he sent his son to die on the cross for me. I don't believe in him. That is you projecting your beliefs onto me and everyone else.

I agree that there is basically no reason to attack God per se, but to attack religion sure. I disagree with everything organized religion stands for.

Being atheist, I see nothing wrong in the books attacking God.

If someone attacked my family member, sure, I'd be mad, but I think I could be reasonable enough to admit (assuming the person had a reason for attacking) that there could be a perfectly acceptable reason for the attack.

Why is it wrong to attack God, to attack someone's beliefs? Don't Christians do that to other religions, to witches and people they deem unworthy? Or was I mistaken when I saw the church denounce Harry Potter?

Alright, well when you said that, it made me assume that you may have believed in God and that it was okay to attack him. Somewhat of an agnostic view, but more apathetic.

And don't blame God for the mistake of some Christians. I read all the Harry Potter books, and found a lot more good in them than evil. Even in the last book, you see an analogy to Jesus Christ. Also, be careful when throwing around the word "unworthy". I'm a Christian, and I still consider myself unworthy of God's grace.
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S'ree
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What generally irritates me about Christianity is that they're so unaccepting. In the Bible, doesn't God say somewhere, "Love thy brother as thy would love thyself" or something rather like that? Someone could easily get shot down and denounced in a community where the majority are Christian just for standing up and saying, "Hey, I'm a Satanist." They would get denounced even if they had never imposed their beliefs or customs on anyone. Isn't God supposed to love all his children, no matter what they do or choose? We are, after all, only human.
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Paleognath
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If its okay for the movie, "The Passion of the Christ" to be viewed then why shouldn't the Golden Compass. Forcing Christian views through the media is okay but when us persons "with supposed liberal biases" make movies, shows, etc. then all of sudden its "stop imposing your views on us". Thats a rather unfair system. And I'm not implying that it isn't the other way around as well.
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Benjamin
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terracara
Dec 3 2007, 10:35 PM
If its okay for the movie, "The Passion of the Christ" to be viewed then why shouldn't the Golden Compass. Forcing Christian views through the media is okay but when us persons "with supposed liberal biases" make movies, shows, etc. then all of sudden its "stop imposing your views on us". Thats a rather unfair system. And I'm not implying that it isn't the other way around as well.

"The Passion of the Christ" didn't attack anyone or anything. It doesn't send out subliminal messages or try to make you hate a certain group through it's theme. Everyone can see that it's going to be a Christian movie before they see it, so it's easier for people to decide if they want to see it, or not. With "The Golden Compass", by just watching the commercials, you can't tell that it's an anti-Christian movie. I think "The Golden Compass" would've been alright if it was just a movie about atheist, instead of a movie that insults God and the church.
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lee2323
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i think the movie wil be great
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