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Race In Today's Society; The color of one's skin
Topic Started: Dec 7 2007, 04:21 PM (810 Views)
Locke
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My Monday/Wednesday/Friday classes aren't particularly similar in nature. One of the few ways that they are alike lies in the fact that we end up off-topic more than on. Today though, in two of my classes we ended up discussing race and culture for much of the class period.

The university that I attend is predominantly Caucasian, with only a handful of diverse students. Even among the faculty, we have very few professors who represent a different ethnic group. My first professor of the day was talking about applications of various sorts (college and jobs for example) and the field where you fill out what either Caucasian, African American, Hispanic, etc. My university is actually attempting to recruit more diversity.

But our argument is that ethnicity is irrelevant. If there were to be more diversity, so be it, but I do not find it necessary to select a person as a student of this university simply because they have a different skin color than I do. In the same way, I want my professor to be the most qualified individual rather than someone who isn't white simply because we need to have persons of different color on the faculty.

I think that's one of the things that I have taken for granted about what we have the opportunity to do here. Have you ever seen a topic asking whether someone is white, black, etc? I haven't. And I must say, I think that is because it doesn't matter. Here you are talented in something, or an idiot, or a fun person to talk to and the color of your skin doesn't influence that.

So why are we able to throw away that obstacle here, when in situations like applications it is so important for 'affirmative action?'

As to why this is in General Chat...I don't necessarily see this as a deep debate. I think it's more contemplative discussion and I don't feel as though I've given a compelling argument in any way and therefore it doesn't necessarily earn a place in a sophisticate environment such as Brain Juice.
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Chimpers
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Locke
Dec 7 2007, 01:21 PM
My Monday/Wednesday/Friday classes aren't particularly similar in nature.  One of the few ways that they are alike lies in the fact that we end up off-topic more than on.  Today though, in two of my classes we ended up discussing race and culture for much of the class period.

The university that I attend is predominantly Caucasian, with only a handful of diverse students.  Even among the faculty, we have very few professors who represent a different ethnic group.  My first professor of the day was talking about applications of various sorts (college and jobs for example) and the field where you fill out what either Caucasian, African American, Hispanic, etc.  My university is actually attempting to recruit more diversity.

But our argument is that ethnicity is irrelevant.  If there were to be more diversity, so be it, but I do not find it necessary to select a person as a student of this university simply because they have a different skin color than I do.  In the same way, I want my professor to be the most qualified individual rather than someone who isn't white simply because we need to have persons of different color on the faculty.

I think that's one of the things that I have taken for granted about what we have the opportunity to do here.  Have you ever seen a topic asking whether someone is white, black, etc?  I haven't.  And I must say, I think that is because it doesn't matter.  Here you are talented in something, or an idiot, or a fun person to talk to and the color of your skin doesn't influence that.

So why are we able to throw away that obstacle here, when in situations like applications it is so important for 'affirmative action?'

As to why this is in General Chat...I don't necessarily see this as a deep debate.  I think it's more contemplative discussion and I don't feel as though I've given a compelling argument in any way and therefore it doesn't necessarily earn a place in a sophisticate environment such as Brain Juice.

I agree, your university is just trying to do that so that it looks good on paper. (Which I don't blame them for doing.) I would rather have a qualified individuled then one that is not as qualified because is skin is different. I'm sure that is the case for many people here too. :)

And forgive me if I completely misunderstood this topic and I am rambling on aimlessly. ^_^

Edited: For my awesome typing.
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Locke
Dec 7 2007, 03:21 PM
Here you are talented in something, or an idiot, or a fun person to talk to and the color of your skin doesn't influence that.

You have to be one of the only people that I've known that can be totally serious, and still include some truthful humor. And in that, you are very correct.

This topic definately relates to my favorite thing about forums: You can be yourself. I am active at SZ because I know that no one will hold anything that I like against me. In the "real world," as I'll call it, people are put in little factions because of their likes or dislikes. Here, I think that everyone feels as if they can relate to eachother, since we all have atleast one thing in common. Every single person that posts here likes foruming. In that sense, the members and staff are like one large group, all here for a similar reason. I think the reason that we can just forget about ethnicity, race, and opinions here is because everyone has similar motives.

Ever since I began my foruming career, I've always wanted the real world to be as accepting. So many things would be better if people didn't feel differently about someone just because they have different color skin or religion, etc. I feel that the world would be so much better. As for your university hiring more diverse people, then so be it. I think that is against the goal that they are trying to reach. I'm sure in hiring diverse people they are trying to show that they are no different. But if they are looking to recruit then, it shows that even your professor thinks that they are different. While applying for a job, it your color, ethnicity, etc. should be totally irrelevant.
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.Chris
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I've always felt that accepting or not accepting people into any group, society, club, school, or whatnot based on the color of their skin or ethnicity, for the sake of "diversity", defeats the purpose of diversity.

Edit: I didn't address the question :r

Not everyone shares my viewpoint (civil rights activists, predominately), and indeed they do use ethnicity as a criteria of acceptance. Affirmative action and Political Correctness has become so entrenched in our society that in order for any place of business or college to have good PR, they have to have a diverse population of employees or students, lest they receive bad publicity.

And there I'll stop, before I go to far, say something stupid and turn this into a debate about political correctness. Because I don't want bad publicity :r.
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Crewss
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I'm going to be honest up front and say that the need for diversity in such large communities (i.e. clubs, colleges, etc.) disregards the entire concept and purpose of the institution. Sure, diversity is a wonderful and innovative attribute for a college to have, but it should not be taken into account before the quality of the application and/or applicant. Colleges or clubs should not be judged on whether or not they are diverse or not. Yes, diversity is a fantastic trait for an institution to have attained, but it is not relevant to whether or not a college is of high standards.

I hate to sound stereotypical in anyway, but it needs to be said; if a Caucasian male and an African-American male apply to college, they have the same grades and everything, 99% of most colleges will choose the African-American male. I'm not being racist in anyway, nor do I hope anyone percieves it as such, but this is wrong. More information should be researched before the final decision is made. Maybe an interview or two. But deciding between two equal resumes or applications based on race or skin color is not right.

It's unfortunate that we live in a society nowadays where diversity has blinded many people to where they do not even consider the standards of various colleges and institutions. If a college has 95% white students, black citizens are bound to question this. The same goes for a college that has 95% black students. I hate to see things escalate to such matters, but it's the truth.
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JoshClements
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The way I see it, the color of one's skin should not matter whether they get into that good college or are given more benefits on the jobsite. It really irritates me when I hear about a man of another ethnicity getting a job in which he has very little qualifications for but is getting the position because of his race. All opportunities should be assigned to the most qualified individual instead someone whom is getting by on their race alone.
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Remzo
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I can honestly say I wish it was more diverse.. Everywhere. We're all 1 concious, if you didnt know.. and just under our exterior flesh lies the same human organs in us all. Judging by that, and not the way they've expressed themselves and their efforts is just dumb. People shouldnt be excluded cause of that..

But we're humans, its not uncommon to favor our own race.
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Machiko
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Locke
Dec 7 2007, 02:21 PM
Words, plenty and plenty of words.

The reason it can be thrown away so easily here is that everyone is anonymous. People will only know so much about you if you want them to. When signing up to SZ, there is no option involving race either. This means that unless you either directly tell someone or post a picture of yourself, it generally never comes into play.
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Trav-man
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I never fill out those forms on applications. I leave it as "Declined to state" or just blank... I think it's so irrelevent, and nobody's business, really. There's just no reason for it to matter enough than an employer or a school would need to know.

People argue that minorities need to work harder than others to gain recognition... and pardon my French, but... bull****! We live in a land of opportunity, and every individual has to make of themselves what they want to be, and it comes with hard work, not with color.
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Lugiatm
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Affirmative action is a step backwards from true equality, which can only be achieved when everyone, regardless of their race, has to work equally hard for college/university places and jobs. Putting the ethnic minority at an advantage at the expense of the majority only causes unrest and distrust.
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Colin.
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I feel that racial diversity is being stressed, when it doesn't have to be. Like here, in my town, we have very few people who aren't Caucasian. It's not a problem, we just don't. Now why should we try to hire more and more ethnicity in our school by recruiting new staff, when our population itself isn't as diverse?

'Recruiting' diverse staff is ridiculous, I mean, you should never hire someone because of their skin colour, it's almost the same thing as racist. "Professor wanted -- only Asians need apply", etc. You should hire people on their skill, work attitude, etc, everything but gender and race. Ethnic diversity will happen on its own accord, we shouldn't be forcing anything. I don't mind it, I like ethnic diversity, but if you're not giving someone better qualified a job because they want someone of a different race, that's pretty much racism.
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Locke
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It's really interesting to read that everyone seemingly aligns with the basic premise of what I was talking about. I thought perhaps someone would have the opposite position, but I suppose that might be because of the environment I wrote this in. :hmm:
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Leda
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Affirmative Action was originally intended to encourage employers to hire other races and women also. Nowadays it's kind of standard to ask the ethnicity question. But even though I'm white, I find the question rather annoying. What difference does it make today?

I too would prefer my teachers be qualified in the subject matter and could care less about their race/sex. And I'm sure if a minority wished to attend your college/university they would apply.

Forums are kind of liberating because they give you the opportunity to get to know other people and you aren't affected by appearance, race, sex, nationality, age, etc. In a way it shows that the vast majority of people can get along no matter what their differences. :) That's the kind of society I'd love to see us move towards.
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.Chris
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Locke
Dec 10 2007, 09:19 PM
It's really interesting to read that everyone seemingly aligns with the basic premise of what I was talking about. I thought perhaps someone would have the opposite position, but I suppose that might be because of the environment I wrote this in. :hmm:

A lot of people at my school would have an opposite opinion to what you said. I probably wouldn't have given any opinion on the matter if I was asked at school, because I would have been jumped on by pretty much everyone. A lot of people agree with it, but I think a lot more people agree with it just so they aren't labeled "cruel" or "racist'. I felt like I could answer honestly here, with the anonymity of the internet. It's just not worth being attacked by everyone to say it in real life.
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Katie
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Locke
Dec 10 2007, 09:19 PM
It's really interesting to read that everyone seemingly aligns with the basic premise of what I was talking about. I thought perhaps someone would have the opposite position, but I suppose that might be because of the environment I wrote this in. :hmm:

I somewhat have an opposite opinion... While I do think you're right that people who are qualified for their positions should be professors and students should be selected based upon intelligence, I think that this only works in a perfect world. I know that at least in my area, people are definitely discriminated against for their color of skin. In private schools, the number of white people is drastically larger than the population of black people, while in public schools the opposite is true.

While there are some good public schools around here, I notice that the good schools tend to have more white students, and the worse schools are predominantly black. Why would this be? Parents sending their children to these schools had the same, poor education, and are stuck in the area because they can't get good jobs. Many black parents cannot afford to send their children to private schools, or can't afford to live near enough to a good public school.

I don't think the solution is affirmative action, but I don't know what is. Affirmative action isn't a perfect solution, because in some cases it causes reverse discrimination, mentioned before, which is when a white person, with the same GPA and record as a black person, would get rejected from a university, and the black person would be accepted.
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