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| Resources Rules Amendment | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 8 2016, 11:44 AM (2,891 Views) | |
| Ferby | Sep 27 2016, 07:50 AM Post #31 |
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I would argue that it's not cleared up because you're made it sound completely different than it actually is but for the sake of both keeping this thread on-topic and self-respect, I won't argue you publicly about it, however the clear message I got from this was a threat that my codes would be restored if you didn't like any response I gave you (so I didn't respond). That was the clear threat there and you know it, and I believe you're only clearing this up now that I have made it public in order to cover yourself. But I'll refrain from continuing this because of the reasons I've already stated. So with that in mind, I have nothing else to contribute. |
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| Brandon | Sep 27 2016, 05:11 PM Post #32 |
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I agree. The progress of ZetaBoards is undeniably linked to me. You are welcome to protest or provide feedback, but a signature is not the place to do it. The whole point of feedback or protesting is to create a conversation. No one can reply to a signature. Everyone can reply to a post or topic.
User IDs are unique per server for ZetaBoards. It has always been that way.
The whole point of making codes available in the first place is to help others. Allowing removal: damages the usefulness of the code sections if a code goes missing. New board owners would be frustrated. Not allowing removal: could easily be overly restrictive to the code author. Allowed with a staff members approval: what would the expectation be? What situations would justify granting or denying an approval? What are the legitimate reasons for a code to be removed? Are there alternatives that can be implemented to avoid the need for removal? Edited by Brandon, Sep 27 2016, 05:35 PM.
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| TanyaM | Sep 28 2016, 03:27 PM Post #33 |
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This entire topic is scattered. Picking up on pieces here and there wasn't easy. Just saying. Normally I wouldn't comment because I'm just a member and never considered what I had to say as important but over time, you learn all thoughts are important when it comes to community and anything you are part of. (even silently) So please bare with me while I try and add input here. Much was said here but I can see a bit of frustration that the topic was followed through questions being unanswered. Would it be wrong to say: Most, if not all don't have an answer? I can't answer the first two questions there. I've never been in a situation that would require me knowing the answers. Not from this particular standpoint. So here me out.. Being an admin of a board but not in truth the board owner results in different answers than say... it would for Brandon. Need I remind people that most of us out there are given free use of our boards. I'm sure there are a few differences with a paid board. But some things still apply. Coders, at least a few I know or know of, do have a license that more or less states that their codes are their own and must not be changed unless asked. Most people know that. Most codes that a person pays a coder for use of is supposed to always be used where they received the code for and the credit should also stay in tact. (unless asked to be used elsewhere) (also applies to themes) Free however I've seen work differently. From using codes and themes but forgetting to keep credit intact to saving themes and codes within their own boards. Are they breaking rules? I've read the TOS. Some things are clear but others are not. I'd say keeping the credits intact is a given. The other part? I don't know but would like to know. As to expectations.... Take the TOS out completely. Remember the general rules of a public domain and add back in the rights of the coder........ Those two things don't balance out any real answers. They plain don't balance at all. Add the TOS and tell me what else causes more questions than answers... Personal thought: Not something that should be spoken so openly when all that will occur are more arguments or a complete and total lack of understanding. Sometimes rules should be broke down completely and combed through before the "best solution" can be found. Work on that and those two questions can be answered. The second question there.... that one is rather tricky. Not everyone will be satisfied no matter how it gets answered.
These are the questions I was interested in. Coders come and go. The forums change/get changed over time. (updates etc) Some codes get outdated. Other codes, a simple fix and the code is like new again. (Same with themes.) That said.... before going to into questions. Pause and think about what I just said. There are a lot of reasons coders remove their codes even though they knew or should have known that by doing so, a lot of boards would get messed up. A lot of new boards who might need or want those codes would no longer be able to have access to them. Creating codes or sharing codes on a public domain designed around the use of those things but not thinking about the consequences of what happens after is a mistake some simply don't think about. (but should) Again, please think ^ Now to answer: I can't say anything about old codes but I can respond to any new ones or current ones on here. (again, this includes themes) Who are still coding right now? Suggestion: Would it be plausible to make some codes "never to be removed" and some "removable due to: unable to update because I do not want other coders messing with my work" ? Isn't that more or less what past and present coders were thinking at the time of sharing? (mostly) Yes, the point is to share because it helps others but I've read more often than not (and this part bothers me) where codes were shared for themselves more than for the people asking for them or just in general. There are no actual " legitimate reasons for a code to be removed" The reason I say this is because codes and themes can be handed off to another if a problem occurs or if it needs updated to work again. I'm well aware that coding is time consuming and those creating those codes don't like to share in that way ^ but... shouldn't they be? I mean, what is the point if a code breaks and the original coder isn't around to fix it? (if another can't fix it for them) The constant "redo" of the same general codes can become tedious. And what about the really time consuming ones... if the original coder pulls those after sharing for so long, it ruins boards who appreciated the use of them. Same general idea applies. Alternatives? I mentioned a a couple in my explanation to the first question. The end goal is so everyone agrees right? So everyone is happy or at least content? 1. Don't create codes you, in the end, won't let stick around. 2. Codes designed for individuals or their boards: Make sure they know what is expected/wanted. Explain the do's and don'ts clearly. Make sure they can get a hold of you in case an issue occurs. Have a backup plan together. Don't make those codes public. (this saves on headaches I've seen across the entire board) 3. Learn to charge for special codes people might want. It can be done outside of Zeta so no rules get crossed or broken. But understand by law, charging makes those codes theirs for the most part. You having credit for original code is all you're entitled to. They are paying you for your name and work. Nothing more.(and yet, isn't that everything? time put in is your work) 4. Work together! (mentioned up above a bit) This goes hand-in-hand with #1. it is the most beneficial for all involved. ((make sure your credit is in your work and that should be good enough))
True. But the coder could leave behind a small part of that code to guide another coder into creating something similar and yet unique/original at the same time. Remove their own but leave something... anything in its place so people don't feel like it was all for nothing. Finding balance is never easy but it is doable. There is always a way to keep all content. (but people need to work together instead of fighting over rules) Create rules that give those who require credit, their credit due and still maintain the work that people can use. *shrugs* Just food for thought. |
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| Cory | Sep 29 2016, 08:33 PM Post #34 |
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As stated before, it pretty much is allowed at the moment due to no rule stating otherwise. Indeed, allowing it can hurt the user-base more then not allowing it, but we are all getting into the technicalities of copyright/licensing, in relation to ownership. ZetaBoards may hold the right to store these posts to be displayed, but I'm pretty sure the rights to the code itself belong to the original creator. This is where it gets confusing, where staff should be restoring codes that were removed by the original author for the betterment of the network, or leaving the code removed due to the code author having full rights over whether they wish to share their work with the network any longer. Does submitting a code here mean it becomes apart of the public domain? That's a touchy subject because we are submitting our work to be available to the public for their use, but the work is copyrighted to us the moment we created it. I don't believe ZetaBoards would even be allowed to follow through with such a rule due to the way the system and copyright works. The Edit button is available the moment we create the topic, giving us the opportunity to control our posted material. This probably wouldn't work either due to the aforementioned reason, but if it did I'm sure the staff would be the ones to have the best judgment whether to allow a code to be removed or not, being the volunteers that keep the network under their control.
Not really, because the 'laws' of ZetaBoards and the 'laws' of the USA create loopholes. |
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| TanyaM | Sep 30 2016, 12:54 AM Post #35 |
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hmm... I didn't think of a couple of those things Cory filled in for legitimate reasons. The first one I should have thought about since I've seen it happen a few times over the years. The 4th one I can understand since people have tried that. The last one.... okay, I didn't see an issue with others taking over till I read the "inaccurate support" I still stand on the rest of what I said though. ---------- An on-topic/off-topic questions for Cory (and all coders who feel the same way) If you honestly feel there are no alternatives and you also feel all those reasons are legitimate, then what is the point in continuing the topic? What is the point in creating code that any of you coders can pull at any given time? I know the rules and I also know they tend to cross things out and said as much. But what I don't understand is why be so firm that there isn't any alternatives. I'm not trying to cause trouble but I am trying to understand. Even with loopholes, which is kind of an understatement, there has to be things that can be done/written/said that works in everyone best interest. |
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| spiiike | Sep 30 2016, 10:08 AM Post #36 |
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I'm still of the view if you post a code here, it should stay here for as long as it's compatible with ZB. There is no reason except 1 (the code conflicts with an update) to ever remove a code and it reeks of taking your ball and going home child-like behaviour to me. Add a rule so that if a coder disappears and is no longer supporting the code that after X days of inactivity (eg. 90) other coders can step in to support users if needbe, that takes care of that reason to allow code removal. Of course, I see this from the user perspective only but I get what Brandon is saying that just codes disappearing on a whim because a coder doesn't want them here anymore isn't fair and would be frustrating to board users and also harmful to ZB's reputation because of that. I'm still not getting kicking up a fuss and trying to punish everyone if you're mad at ZB staff when the only ones who hurt are the board users. Edited by spiiike, Sep 30 2016, 10:10 AM.
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| Cory | Oct 5 2016, 01:41 PM Post #37 |
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Again, it's a matter of ownership. I don't foresee myself ever removing my codes again, but I think when it comes to copyright, we have the full rights to take down our posted work from the internet. I reiterate: Does a board owner have the full rights to delete their board at any given time? Yes they do, because they are the owner of the board and have the full right to delete it. On a larger scale, Brandon has the full right to take down the entirety of ZetaBoards, because he is the owner. People don't even need a reason to take down their work when they own it. Here's a rule on this board that can be used as an example: They essentially have the right to preform such a task, whereas work that is copyrighted to a said individual has the right to remove their work 'at any time without warning or explanation.' |
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